[TGOSpoilers]Crazy thoughts from reading the chapters/extracts that have dropped

  • 6 Replies
  • 3305 Views

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Walter

  • *
  • The Afflicted Few
  • Kijneta
  • *****
  • Posts: 171
    • View Profile
« on: May 26, 2016, 05:49:36 pm »
1:  The No-God is just The God.  Kellhus's explanations to Proyus that God is 'it' are meant to prepare him for the necessity of the Holy War to fight the very God that Kellhus has convinced them that his soul is the shape of. 

This explains why the Gods are blind to the No-God (it is just all of them together).  It explains why it is confused (The Gods watch from the Outside through the eyes of souls.  Once stuck together and wandering around on the Inside it doesn't have access to that channel, and can only speak through the Sranc).  It destroys birth because when it is in the world it isn't on the outside shooting souls in.

2: The Gods are ciphrangs, and their particular worshippers are what they feed on.  Gilgaol and Yatwer are strong enough to seize other prey.  So if you are a faithful inrithi you are eaten by one of your Gods.  If you sin then you are instead eaten by a ciphrang that isn't cool enough to be a God.  Heaven is Hell, damnation and paradise are both the same, being perpetually tormented so that these entities can devour your passions.

This is why the Judging Eye sees good and evil.  If we are just bread, why would it disapprove of sin?  Wouldn't that be better for God's purpose?  It makes sense if the righteous are also consumed, and in particular are consumed by the Hundred, who do the Judging.  The sinners are 'evil', because they are feeding low status ciphrangs rather than Gilgaol/Yatwer, etc.  The Judging Eye is Yatwer/Gilgaol/other God's eye.

3: Akka insisting that Kellhus intends for them to be at Ishual/encounter his son, etc, is just him being paranoid.  The Aspect-Emperor didn't sneak into his tower and read his notes.  What they are up to right now is unknown to Kellhus.  Kellhus doesn't care about anything other than his Great Ordeal.

EDIT [Madness]: For title :).
« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 05:57:29 pm by Madness »

nicodante

  • *
  • Suthenti
  • *
  • Posts: 50
    • View Profile
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2016, 05:49:41 pm »
Interesting stuff :) the excerpts alone have been mind-blowing so far, can't wait for the main event!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

CFKane

  • *
  • Emwama
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2016, 12:29:41 am »
3: Akka insisting that Kellhus intends for them to be at Ishual/encounter his son, etc, is just him being paranoid.  The Aspect-Emperor didn't sneak into his tower and read his notes.  What they are up to right now is unknown to Kellhus.  Kellhus doesn't care about anything other than his Great Ordeal.

A part of me desperately hopes that this is true. Achamian's personal war against Kellhus seems to give him purpose, and it would be interesting to see how Achamian responds to Kellhus's utter indifference.

Darzin

  • *
  • Suthenti
  • *
  • Posts: 38
    • View Profile
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2016, 03:39:38 am »
I don't think damnation is the only thing which happens in the outside I think it's just once side of the "harvest" some the gods reward some the gods punish.

Quote
He comes to the shore that is here, always here, gazes without sight across waters that are fire, and sees the Sons swimming, lolling and bloated and bestial, raising babes as wineskins, and drinking deep their shrieks.

Quote
He has always hidden, always watched, where Other Sons, recline, drinking from bowls that are skies, savoring the moaning broth of the Countless, bloating for the sake of bloat, slaking hungers like chasms, pits that eternity had rendered Holy ...

The place of shrieks and the place of moans are very different places one is fire,one is skies and one has moaning and one has shrieking. The gods feed on emotion not pain. Think of pain as a flavor like steak, and pleasure as a flavor like ice cream, some souls taste better with sprinkles and some with salt. That is what damnation is making your soul go with pain and not pleasure.

Indecently I do have a crackpot theory about the sons in the "place of skies" Given that the sons in the "place of fire" seem designed to produce pain, I wonder if the angelic ciprang we have been told about look like actual angels as in beautiful women and the place of skies produces pleasure through a constant orgy. This would fit Bakker's themes of peoples lot in life being improved because of pragmatism rather than altruism. The gods give us ecstasy because they need our ecstasy, not because they love us.
There is no god but God and Fane is the messenger of God

Onrack

  • *
  • Suthenti
  • *
  • Posts: 45
    • View Profile
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2016, 10:03:24 pm »
I don't think damnation is the only thing which happens in the outside I think it's just once side of the "harvest" some the gods reward some the gods punish.

Quote
He comes to the shore that is here, always here, gazes without sight across waters that are fire, and sees the Sons swimming, lolling and bloated and bestial, raising babes as wineskins, and drinking deep their shrieks.

Quote
He has always hidden, always watched, where Other Sons, recline, drinking from bowls that are skies, savoring the moaning broth of the Countless, bloating for the sake of bloat, slaking hungers like chasms, pits that eternity had rendered Holy ...

The place of shrieks and the place of moans are very different places one is fire,one is skies and one has moaning and one has shrieking. The gods feed on emotion not pain. Think of pain as a flavor like steak, and pleasure as a flavor like ice cream, some souls taste better with sprinkles and some with salt. That is what damnation is making your soul go with pain and not pleasure.

Indecently I do have a crackpot theory about the sons in the "place of skies" Given that the sons in the "place of fire" seem designed to produce pain, I wonder if the angelic ciprang we have been told about look like actual angels as in beautiful women and the place of skies produces pleasure through a constant orgy. This would fit Bakker's themes of peoples lot in life being improved because of pragmatism rather than altruism. The gods give us ecstasy because they need our ecstasy, not because they love us.

Very interesting, that definitely sounds like it's accurate. One aspect of this process I'm confused about however, is how does the Tusk and human belief fit in? Is the Outside completely impervious to human belief, and the Gods just arbitrarily design rules based on whatever tasty brand of human soul they like to gobble up? I've come to understand the objective morality of Earwa is a fact, but does this solely derive from the whims of the Gods?

Another aspect I'm curious about: I thought that desire was the root of damnation, but it seems like desire can also lead to the things that may be "rewarded" by some Gods.

JRControl

  • *
  • Momurai
  • **
  • Posts: 108
  • Kellhus lied, Harambe died
    • View Profile
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2016, 11:13:55 pm »
Quote
“Love is the Way … And yet these little demons you call Gods decree otherwise? Dole out their rewards in proportion to our suffering? No.” She paused before him, her slight form magnificent in the play of gloom and light. “I would save my soul.” She reached out to trace his lips with a shining fingertip. Esmenet, burning for congress. For all his breeding, all his conditioning, Kellhus could feel the ancient instinct rise … What kind of game? He caught her wrist. “She doesn’t love you,” she said, tugging her wrist free. “Not truly.” The words jarred—but why? What was this darkness? Pain? “She worships,” Kellhus found himself replying, “and has yet to understand the difference.” How many secrets could it see? How much did it know? “Such a marvel,” she said, “what you’ve accomplished … So much stolen.” It spoke as though knowing much warranted knowing all. It tries to lure me, draw me into open discourse. “My father has been here thirty years.” “Long enough to require a Holy War to overcome him?” “Long enough.” She smiled, drew two fingers across her sweaty breastbone. Though her body remained young, her eyes possessed an age not her own. “Again,” she simpered, “I don’t believe you … You are your father’s heir, not his assassin.” And the air reeked of sorcery.

I think it's simply the matter of flavoring the meat or the bread as big K says. A life of misery and wretchedness which is then introduced to a sort of almost like Heaven? The emotional contrast, between anguish and ecstasy would be quite severe. It's their demonic heroin. The punishment for sin I suspect serves a similar purpose, from the feeling of power and control and joy to one of powerlessness, helplessness and suffering. You need something to compare the base feeling to or otherwise it's like crack, good stuff, but not as good as heroin.
“Because you’re a pious man born to a world unable to fathom your piety. But all that changes with me, Akka. The old food pyramids have outlived the age of their intention, and I have come to reveal the new. I am the Slimmest Path, and I say that you are not damned.”

The Sharmat

  • *
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Horde General
  • Posts: 779
    • View Profile
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2016, 06:33:54 pm »
I'm not sure damnation and salvation are this cut and dry. From the descriptions of souls basically being flayed and sort of...unraveled, into their constituent parts, I kind of think every soul gets both treatments. The proportions just vary in proportion to their nature and the life they lived. So some people get way more paradise than perdition, and vice-versa. And since time and place are meaningless in the Outside, the same soul is always being unraveled, and can be in any or all of these different spheres of not-quite-existence at once.

The Consult is totally right. Plug that hole. (The above thing about the No-God is interesting and I'd had a similar, though not identical, thought on the nature of the No-God, but I'm not convinced yet.)