History of Earwa from Wert

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Werthead

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« Reply #90 on: June 09, 2017, 11:15:06 pm »
PDF VERSION!

Let me know what you think and any changes that may be needed before I share this more widely. I'm not sure the bold, smaller type for the image captions is working too great, but aside from that I think it's relatively solid.

Note that I didn't hear back from Scott, so there may be mistakes/misunderstandings from me in there. No spoilers from the UC storyline though.

TaoHorror

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« Reply #91 on: June 10, 2017, 11:44:41 am »
If you hadn't brought it up, don't think I would have taken notice - but looking at the bold text under the pictures, think all you have to do is pick a thinner text, the letters blend into each other a tad. But it looks good, so doing nothing, leaving it alone is good option as well. Thanks for your work on this, nice piece.
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Madness

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« Reply #92 on: June 10, 2017, 11:48:45 am »
It is a really amazing and well-put together document, Wert.

I'm building list a couple pages long of bullet-point "quibbles" as I'll call them but I don't know if that's what you're looking for. Let me know, thanks.
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Werthead

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« Reply #93 on: June 10, 2017, 11:53:08 am »
It is a really amazing and well-put together document, Wert.

I'm building list a couple pages long of bullet-point "quibbles" as I'll call them but I don't know if that's what you're looking for. Let me know, thanks.

Sure. Things that are actual mistakes are what I'm really looking for (like I see one of the pictures and captions actually de-centred for some reason, so I've fixed that in the next version).

Madness

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« Reply #94 on: June 10, 2017, 12:07:21 pm »
Lol, I was going to list a couple to float by you but now that I'm reading some of these with a morning eye, I can see reasons to invalidate most of my quibbles, so far. But for fodder, a few of them:

- "For reasons unknown, this order was rescinded and Sirwatta merely had his tongue removed" (p3).
      - "By other accounts" - as I don't believe it was confirmed one way or another.

- "the Father of Dragons (although he survived)" (p16).
      - I don't see a reason to add these brackets, though I suppose the later history entry does confirm his "living" on.

- "In this room was located an object known only as the “Inverse Fire”. Every Cûnuroi who beheld this artifact was driven insane on the instant, proclaiming that the Inchoroi were right and all the people of the World were doomed to damnation" (p18)
      - "The three Cunuroi" - every makes it sound like many, at least to mine eyes.

- "ordered the Qûya under Emilidis, the Artisan, to raise a glamour (known as the Barricades) about it to hide it away from the rest of the world and prevent entry" (p18).
      - That the Glamour and Barricades are one and the same is apparently up to some debate – I’m of the opinion that they’re one and the same but I was a minority in the last conversation we had about it in Quorum here.

- "divine aspects of the One God, who responded to their prayers and intervened in the affairs of men" (p20).
      - I don't know where you found this "One God" bit. Wasn't the whole relevation of Inri Sejenus that the Hundred Kunniat Gods were in fact aspects of the God-of-Gods?

Anyhow, let me know :). I think the first four are just me being super-critical and are irrelevant to newcomers, at whom this is aimed, and the overall awesomeness of your work.

The last there though, I'm genuinely perplexed.

As said though, if these are not what you're looking for, I'll keep enjoying the read and look for grammatical errors, formatting errors, and more major canon errors.
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Werthead

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« Reply #95 on: June 10, 2017, 06:33:49 pm »
Quote
- "In this room was located an object known only as the “Inverse Fire”. Every Cûnuroi who beheld this artifact was driven insane on the instant, proclaiming that the Inchoroi were right and all the people of the World were doomed to damnation" (p18)
      - "The three Cunuroi" - every makes it sound like many, at least to mine eyes.

Many Cunuroi did see the Inverse Fire; those three were only the ones that Nil'giccas sent directly to investigate, but Nin'janjin saw it previously and presumably many of the Quya who went over to the Inchoroi earlier (the ones who create the Chorae, among others) did as well.

Quote
- "ordered the Qûya under Emilidis, the Artisan, to a glamour (known as the Barricades) about it to hide it away from the rest of the world and prevent entry" (p18).
      - That the Glamour and Barricades are one and raise the same is apparently up to some debate – I’m of the opinion that they’re one and the same but I was a minority in the last conversation we had about it in Quorum here.

Good point. I wonder if Scott moved away from the original idea of the Glamour. I originally got the impression that it was some sort of cloaking field placed over the entire area to prevent people from finding it, but this seems unnecessary and ineffectual (the Nonmen knew where it was, and for anyone else the absolutely massive 100-mile-wide mega-crater of the Black Furnace Plain might be a bit of a clue). Definitely the idea by The False Sun is that it's a sorcerous barrier protecting the one extant doorway into the Ark (the rest having been sealed with soggomant).

Quote
I don't know where you found this "One God" bit. Wasn't the whole relevation of Inri Sejenus that the Hundred Kunniat Gods were in fact aspects of the God-of-Gods?

I think that's my over-familiarity with numerous other fantasy series creeping in, where the "One God" comes up a lot as a term.

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« Reply #96 on: June 10, 2017, 06:39:58 pm »
Do you want me to keep going as I was then, Wert, if you found those few [two] useful?
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Werthead

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« Reply #97 on: June 10, 2017, 06:49:08 pm »
Sure.

The God-of-Gods existed in the Kunniat tradition as well as an "abstract placeholder". It's unclear if the Shamans believed only in the God of Gods and the Prophets then introduced the Hundred (or the Hundred seized on the Prophets to seize the hearts and souls of men), or if the Hundred existed in the Shamanic period (pre-Tusk, pre-Hundred) also.

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« Reply #98 on: June 10, 2017, 06:56:01 pm »
Agreed, that is a possibility.

I find there are often as many interpretations of the text as there are readers - though, Hiro will admonish me that this is impossible ;). For my money, though, I find it likely that during the Shamanic period (or pre-Kiunnat, pre-Tusk) humans simply attributed God-head to different aspects of their lives and eventually arrived at that nice round hundred number.

But, as always, just fodder for you to use or toss at your leisure. Thanks much for your efforts with this, The Compendium of Werthead, Wert :). I know Bakker is tickled pink whenever your History of Earwa series comes up.

I will try and get through the rest of the file this evening. I believe I started into Part 3 last night before hitting the sack.
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Werthead

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« Reply #99 on: June 10, 2017, 09:41:56 pm »
Quote
For my money, though, I find it likely that during the Shamanic period (or pre-Kiunnat, pre-Tusk) humans simply attributed God-head to different aspects of their lives and eventually arrived at that nice round hundred number.

I'm intrigued by the theory that the Nonmen inadvertently created the Hundred (the whole "99 sons" thing from TGO) but we need more information on that.

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« Reply #100 on: June 11, 2017, 10:35:44 am »
Yeah, I noticed some members picked that up from the Boatman's Song in TGO. I try and keep my authorial insights to myself but in this case, I do know that Bakker is purposely doing something with number notation across the series (as I said to Wilshire recently, I was never interested in that aspect of the story enough to and figure it out but apparently there is something there.)

Also, sorry, Wert, didn't get to it last night but sometime early this afternoon I will do due diligence.
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Yellow

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« Reply #101 on: June 11, 2017, 03:04:43 pm »

I'm intrigued by the theory that the Nonmen inadvertently created the Hundred (the whole "99 sons" thing from TGO) but we need more information on that.

I'm definitely of this camp as well. I keep thinking of the opening quote from the prologue of TGO, and can't think what it's related to, or how it ties in with the hundred (other than the obvious, literal manner).

Quote from: Fane
And naught was known or unknown, and there was no hunger.
All was One in silence, and it was as Death.
Then the Word was spoken, and One became Many.
Doing was struck from the hip of Being.
And the Solitary God said, 'Let there be Deceit. Let there be Desire.'

- The Book of Fane

Was the Word actually sorcery? Did the Quya somehow create the hundred? I guess the obvious thing would be that the One spoke the Word to create the many. But I can't help but feel the Nonmen are involved. I also think that it being the very first quote in the book gives it particular thematic weight.

By the way, Wert - love your history series. I shared it with a friend a few months back and she said she couldn't breathe while she was reading it :) Turned out she hadn't read the glossary closely enough and didn't know the Inchoroi arrived from space!
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« Reply #102 on: June 12, 2017, 01:18:14 pm »

I'm intrigued by the theory that the Nonmen inadvertently created the Hundred (the whole "99 sons" thing from TGO) but we need more information on that.

I'm definitely of this camp as well. I keep thinking of the opening quote from the prologue of TGO, and can't think what it's related to, or how it ties in with the hundred (other than the obvious, literal manner).

Quote from: Fane
And naught was known or unknown, and there was no hunger.
All was One in silence, and it was as Death.
Then the Word was spoken, and One became Many.
Doing was struck from the hip of Being.
And the Solitary God said, 'Let there be Deceit. Let there be Desire.'

- The Book of Fane

Was the Word actually sorcery? Did the Quya somehow create the hundred? I guess the obvious thing would be that the One spoke the Word to create the many. But I can't help but feel the Nonmen are involved. I also think that it being the very first quote in the book gives it particular thematic weight.

By the way, Wert - love your history series. I shared it with a friend a few months back and she said she couldn't breathe while she was reading it :) Turned out she hadn't read the glossary closely enough and didn't know the Inchoroi arrived from space!

I'll find the quote later, but Bakker actually said that no one fractured the God, God did.

EDIT: Found it:

Quote
It's not Ajokli who's invisible, and no, the Nonmen didn't shatter God, God did.

I think the Word is literally language.  Once language was around to categorize things, differentiate things, no longer was an idyllic state of simple Being possible, all was made to be Doing.  I think it is a reconceptualized "Fall" of Christian mythos.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2017, 02:30:38 pm by H »
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Werthead

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« Reply #103 on: June 12, 2017, 05:16:23 pm »
The final release version, barring Scott or Madness raising major issues, is here.

Wilshire

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« Reply #104 on: June 13, 2017, 12:18:53 pm »
Wow, thanks Wert - that's quite the document! Great job.
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