[JRControl]

So in all my reads of the series, I always figured Nail of Heaven was the poetic term for the World's moon. Reading the 1st part of history on Wertzone it was pointed out to me that it was a star and there are some theories regarding it. My own guess based on this info, that it was an extremely luminous stargate and the flare-up was it's activation that signaled the arrival of the Ark bearing everyone favourite party animals and probably not an insignificant amount of direct descendants of Keith Richards, Charlies Sheen and Gary Busey.

That said, how did the Inchoroi know Earwas was the world where it all comes together? Spin-off thought from that is that their ship didn't break down, but they attempted to use it an extinction level event orbital strike, but somehow miscalculated or there was a last minute intervention of the Solitary Gode that thwarted that plan and promptly put him/it to sleep and created all the demons Gods.

[Wilshire]

The Nail is a star, pretty clearly in the book (though I too thought it was the moon until long after I finished). I'm not at all sure how its connected to the Inchoroi, but it certainly seems that it must be, somehow.

Spin-off thought from that is that their ship didn't break down, but they attempted to use it an extinction level event orbital strike

I very much doubt this explanation. If you recall, the reason why the Inchoroi built the sranc was so that they'd exterminate the sentient life, but otherwise leave the world untouched. They make no villages or cities, they eat nothing but grubs when Nonmen/humans aren't around. The consult would not take such care creating those creatures if they wanted to ruin the world. You wouldn't nuke your Eden - there's no point of a promised land if its all radioactive and nuclear winter.

No, whatever caused the near disaster of their landing, including permanently scorching  500 miles of ground making it desolate for ever, turning the ground into broken glass and all that, it was not intentional. Or, at the very least, didn't work out as planned.

I would also guess that the Inchoroi didn't know Earwa was special until after they landed. Until after the ensuing centuries of wars against the Nonmen, or up until they saw magic.

[JRControl]

I don't know. I don't recall them mentioning Earwa as great real estate by itself (or Sranc being designed as clean weapons, instead of simply as efficient and low maintenance as possible), simply that it's important for it's connection to the Outside, like Arrakis on Dune. Shit world for habitation, but very important in the grand scheme of things. I think their primary goal was avoiding eternal damnation. Living after that and partying forever is a bonus.

[Wilshire]

There are those around that are obsessed with quotes. Hopefully one of them can come to my rescue, but its in the books somewhere, I'm sure of it.

 Again, I'm going to disagree. Living happily after avoiding damnation is the entire point of avoiding it in the first place. No point in turning the world you're stuck on for eternity into its own kind of hell by exterminating all life and making it generally unpleasant.

[Edit] They are the race of lovers. . The poor Inchoroi would have been kind hearted and lovable if not for the damned Gods (ok, not really, but you never know...)

[rutiger]

I love the sci-fi influences in the series.  As someone who didn't like fantasy growing up, it was an pleasant surprise to see it sneaking in.

It's worth noting that the Nail is a polestar (or pole-wormhole, or whatever), specifically the northern polestar.  Assuming its appearance is related to the Ark's arrival, it makes me wonder just how far north the old north actually is.

[MSJ]

I love the sci-fi influences in the series.  As someone who didn't like fantasy growing up, it was an pleasant surprise to see it sneaking in.

It's worth noting that the Nail is a polestar (or pole-wormhole, or whatever), specifically the northern polestar.  Assuming its appearance is related to the Ark's arrival, it makes me wonder just how far north the old north actually is.

Well, in Wert's blog, History of Earwa, the new info revealed was that the Nonman observed the NoH flare up for awhile then go back to normal. Then, 3 years later the Inchoroi arrived via the Ark. So, it wasn't created by the arrival of the Inchoroi. Though, what it actually is, and why it flared and so forth, I have no idea.

[rutiger]

Well, in Wert's blog, History of Earwa, the new info revealed was that the Nonman observed the NoH flare up for awhile then go back to normal. Then, 3 years later the Inchoroi arrived via the Ark. So, it wasn't created by the arrival of the Inchoroi. Though, what it actually is, and why it flared and so forth, I have no idea.

I don't think that precludes the connection.  Our own polestar is 433 light-years away from us.  We know the Nail must be very, very far from Earwa, or it wouldn't remain a polestar as the planet moves around its sun, and the sun moves around galactic central, etc.  3 years for a vessel to reach Earwa from the Nail seems pretty reasonable, especially when you consider it takes much longer than that for us to reach planets in our own solar system.

I haven't read Wert's history yet, but I'm pretty sure the books mentioned the connection already.  I just can't remember where...

[Onrack]

I love the sci-fi influences in the series.  As someone who didn't like fantasy growing up, it was an pleasant surprise to see it sneaking in.

It's worth noting that the Nail is a polestar (or pole-wormhole, or whatever), specifically the northern polestar.  Assuming its appearance is related to the Ark's arrival, it makes me wonder just how far north the old north actually is.

Well, in Wert's blog, History of Earwa, the new info revealed was that the Nonman observed the NoH flare up for awhile then go back to normal. Then, 3 years later the Inchoroi arrived via the Ark. So, it wasn't created by the arrival of the Inchoroi. Though, what it actually is, and why it flared and so forth, I have no idea.

Is it possible that it would take 3 years for the Inchoroi ship to travel from the Star/portal to Earwa?

[MSJ]

I love the sci-fi influences in the series.  As someone who didn't like fantasy growing up, it was an pleasant surprise to see it sneaking in.

It's worth noting that the Nail is a polestar (or pole-wormhole, or whatever), specifically the northern polestar.  Assuming its appearance is related to the Ark's arrival, it makes me wonder just how far north the old north actually is.

Well, in Wert's blog, History of Earwa, the new info revealed was that the Nonman observed the NoH flare up for awhile then go back to normal. Then, 3 years later the Inchoroi arrived via the Ark. So, it wasn't created by the arrival of the Inchoroi. Though, what it actually is, and why it flared and so forth, I have no idea.

Is it possible that it would take 3 years for the Inchoroi ship to travel from the Star/portal to Earwa?

Well, yea, I think that's what it implies. I was just stating that the NoH was there before the Inchoroi arrival, regardless if it was the portal they used to actually make it to Earwa. I really like the theory that it's a literal portal to the Outside and that's what makes Earwa special out of all the world's the Inchoroi visited.

ETA: I was just clarifying that the Inchoroi's arrival is not whatcreated the NoH.

[Madness]

I love the sci-fi influences in the series.  As someone who didn't like fantasy growing up, it was an pleasant surprise to see it sneaking in.

Agreed .

Though, I will say, I wager Bakker can write some real great straight up SF.

[rutiger]

Well, yea, I think that's what it implies. I was just stating that the NoH was there before the Inchoroi arrival, regardless if it was the portal they used to actually make it to Earwa. I really like the theory that it's a literal portal to the Outside and that's what makes Earwa special out of all the world's the Inchoroi visited.

ETA: I was just clarifying that the Inchoroi's arrival is not whatcreated the NoH.

Oh, gotcha.

But... I wonder what Wert's source on that is.  In The False Sun, Bakker tells us that the Nonmen's name for the Nail, Imburil, means "The Newborn."  That implies to me that at some point in their history it didn't exist.

[Madness]

But... I wonder what Wert's source on that is.

In one of the Westeros threads, Wert suggested that Bakker fed him the information - case in point, the names of all the other Nonmen Mansions. Wilshire and I guessed that probably Bakker is previewing pieces of the Expanded Glossary with Wert.

We have a thread here, though as I said possibly Expanded Glossary spoilers (which, in the case of the original Glossary, I remember I was just so shocked that the story ended in the second third of the page count that I really enjoyed reading the TTT Glossary). And then I immediately read PON again because apparently couldn't find anything online about... the rest of the damn story .

[Wilshire]

If its a space station or some other such large object, rather than a wormhole, it would just be in geosynchronous orbit over Earwa, so not necessarily far away.

Flaring could be the burn of thrusters slowing the mothership/space station down from whatever travel velocity they had. Could have needed 3 years to slow down from star-traveling velocity to intra-solarsystem velocity.

That's an old, old record. Might have been that the NoH wasn't always geosynchronous during that period.

[Callan S.]

Well, yea, I think that's what it implies. I was just stating that the NoH was there before the Inchoroi arrival, regardless if it was the portal they used to actually make it to Earwa. I really like the theory that it's a literal portal to the Outside and that's what makes Earwa special out of all the world's the Inchoroi visited.

ETA: I was just clarifying that the Inchoroi's arrival is not whatcreated the NoH.

Oh, gotcha.

But... I wonder what Wert's source on that is.  In The False Sun, Bakker tells us that the Nonmen's name for the Nail, Imburil, means "The Newborn."  That implies to me that at some point in their history it didn't exist.

Oh, so maybe that's what 'false sun' refers to.

I mean, the nail of heaven is geosynchronous, but it can't be a star/a sun or it'd burn Earwa. If it were a sun but way, way out like other stars yet at the same time geosynchronous, that's odd. Probably not matching with the flaring either - if it's way out like other stars, then it wouldn't just be a three year gap between its flare and the inchoroi arriving.

Maybe that was the spoiler warning for 'The false sun', but it's pretty cheeky to say there are spoilers in something that by naming it is the spoiler!