[TGO SPOILERS] Momemn

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Madness

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« on: July 13, 2016, 08:28:57 pm »
First post of ARC thread (you can click the quote tag to get to the past thread):

The Fanim appear outside Momemn as Esmenet reconciles with Maithanet only as he is murdered by the White-Luck Warrior...
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MisterGuyMan

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« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2016, 06:01:27 pm »
Some one help me understand the scene where the WLW dies.  Specifically what Esmi was supposed to have done.

Quote
"What have you done?"

She winced at blows that did not come.  She clawed at his wool leggings, hooked fingers into the rim of his right boot.

"I..." she began on the urge to vomit.
Let it... a seditious fragment whispered.
"I-I..."
Happen.

Quote
Mother stamps her foot upon the earth.

All life stumbles.  The ceilings unhitch and come shrugging down.

His sword swirls broken through curtains of debris.

The tear wells in Mother's eye.  The ground hammers all things terrestrial as a mallet.

The Demon dances clear the ceilings, miraculously stands to regard his teetering wife.

"Esmi?"

His broken sword pitches, end over end, following a miraculous chute through the curtains of debris.

Mother blinks the tear.  The vast ceiling slumps, then crashes, fragments of marmoreal splendour.

"Catch," the Empress calls.
Where did the Tear of God come from?  Did Esmi try to throw a Chorae at Kellhus?  Was that her seditious thought?  I have my own idea with what happened but I'd like to know how others read this.

themerchant

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« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2016, 07:11:36 pm »
her crime seems to be she "let it happen" whatever "it" is, is up for speculation. Wee Kel running about wild killing everyone without her realising? She was deliberately letting the empire fall? Not sure.

Chorae might have been embedded in the ceiling.

She throws a peach to him earlier and says catch. While Kel is spying i think. So might need to go back and re-read as might be connected.

H

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« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2016, 07:40:22 pm »
I figured "letting it happen" was by allowing the WLW to be in the Palace and deliberately following him when she knew she shouldn't.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

RedSetter4570

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« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2016, 02:57:08 am »
Perhaps what she let happen was allow intervention of the Gods, which Kehllus knew would eventually happen.  Just as he conditioned Saubon and Proyas (sorry, have  the audiobook, forgive my spelling) so too has Kellhus laid the ground work for godly destruction of Momem.  Such, he implying to  Esmi that he was false, and the Gods were against him, ensuring the Thousand Temples is remade to reflect something true.
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Cüréthañ

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« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2016, 04:06:48 am »
Esme has a connection with Yatwer. There's no way of her fragment knowing what 'it' is otherwise. Whether Yatwer produces the tear directly or causes Esme to throw one doesn't really matter, Esme is a conduit for the Mother's will at this point.
Retracing his bloody footprints, the Wizard limped on.

JRControl

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« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2016, 12:07:40 pm »
Someone pointed out the Choare might have come from the ceiling that was designed to stop sorcery on it or something. If I am remembering correctly that is.
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geoffrobro

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« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2016, 04:45:37 pm »
I'm on my first listen-thru on the audio book. The first amazing thing  I heard was Meppa changed his face. Esmi for a second thing he is a skin spy before the water hits.
This has huge implications, because that means the cisharim could change their faces this whole time and would explain why the Consult wanted them destroy by the first holy war.
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Madness

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« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2016, 03:37:49 pm »
I'm on my first listen-thru on the audio book. The first amazing thing  I heard was Meppa changed his face. Esmi for a second thing he is a skin spy before the water hits.
This has huge implications, because that means the cisharim could change their faces this whole time and would explain why the Consult wanted them destroy by the first holy war.

I figure this just reflects the Cishaurim equivalent of a Glamour? Though, that doesn't contradict your point, actually reinforces it. Cishaurim could use Glamours without Mark unlike other Sorcerers.
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MSJ

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« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2016, 11:19:25 pm »
I'm on my first listen-thru on the audio book. The first amazing thing  I heard was Meppa changed his face. Esmi for a second thing he is a skin spy before the water hits.
This has huge implications, because that means the cisharim could change their faces this whole time and would explain why the Consult wanted them destroy by the first holy war.

I figure this just reflects the Cishaurim equivalent of a Glamour? Though, that doesn't contradict your point, actually reinforces it. Cishaurim could use Glamours without Mark unlike other Sorcerers.

Well isn't this the exact same thing that Mallahet (Moe) used when they had the meeting with Xerius in TDTCB?
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

geoffrobro

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« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2016, 12:15:48 am »
Kinda but moe's version was like a hologram over his face. Something that was obviously not his face. But what Meppa did was a full disguise, Esmi thought she was talking to faynal the whole time.

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"Wutrim kut mi’puru kamuir!"

MSJ

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« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2016, 12:18:59 am »
Huh. I have t re-read it. I thought Meppa was dressed to look like Fayanal and had the hologram over his face, like in TDCTB.

Quote
And Anasûrimbor Esmenet found herself staring at a face that was no longer the Padirajah’s … but had become, rather, the face of someone altogether different, someone whose chin, cheeks, and scalp had been shaven— and who inexplicably wore a band of graven silver over his eyes.

The only thing that changes is his face, just like the meeting with Xerius. Same trick, me thinks.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 12:21:50 am by MSJ »
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

geoffrobro

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« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2016, 01:35:06 am »
At no point before the face changes does she mentioned that she was not talking to faynal. She thinks she is talking to Faynal the. The face changes. Back in Tdtcbf meeting with Xerius the hologram used didn't look like flesh. It was like a hologram, moe's face was under and at all time visible.
But what Meppa did was on a skin spy level of disguise.
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Triskele

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« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2016, 03:41:26 am »
The only thing that I can think of to reconcile the two events is that they know in Moe's case because he came first as Mallahet and then announced that he was there so that Xerius could parlay with another and then Skaurus' face appears over Moe's.  But I'm inclined to agree that there was more of a difference because I recall it being described with a holographic image; not a straight glamour/disguise.  The Meppa move seemed to be the latter without any trace of the hologram. 

I don't think it's completely safe to assume that the Cishaurim en masse could all pull this move off.  I think it's implied while perhaps not proven that Meppa is more powerful than your typical Primary, even. 

Madness

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« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2016, 04:59:05 pm »
I don't think it's completely safe to assume that the Cishaurim en masse could all pull this move off.  I think it's implied while perhaps not proven that Meppa is more powerful than your typical Primary, even. 

+1.

As far as I recall, Esmenet thinks that Meppa's a Primary, which by itself was enough to terrify her given that at Shimeh this was the unfortunate conclusion to Eleazaras' long gambit: the Cishaurim Primaries are more powerful than the Anagogics.

EDIT: And ironically, Kellhus' Translocation trick at Shimeh aside, the Last Cishaurim proved almost capable of defeating the Metagnosis - had Malowebi intervened.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 05:01:06 pm by Madness »
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