[MSJ]

I've seen theories put forth that Mimara and the eye is skewed based of her expreriences and biased. Yet, this cannot be true. When she looks at herself with the Eye, she is holy. Yet, she doesn't think she is and can't understand it. So, I'd say the Eye has no bearing on what Mimara thinks and is not based off of her world view.

[The Sharmat]

No one is that singular. She can loathe herself on a gut level while simultaneously seeing herself as the sole pure victimized individual in the universe. Pretty easily, actually. Even most teenagers manage that.

[MSJ]

No one is that singular. She can loathe herself on a gut level while simultaneously seeing herself as the sole pure victimized individual in the universe. Pretty easily, actually. Even most teenagers manage that.

I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think that's the case. Koringhus figures out what makes holy and it's a picture of Mimara's life. Hence her being holy.

And so it was with the Absolute. Surrender. Forfeiture . Loss … At last he understood what made these things holy. Loss was advantage. Blindness was insight, revelation. At last he could see it— the sideways step that gave lie to Logos. Zero. Zero made One.

Surrender. Mimara surrendered the moment she was sold to slavery. Loss. She lost eveything in her life, family, a chance at a real life and so much more, freedom and so on. Blindness. She is blind to what the JE was and therefore has no bearing on it. She is blind to the mechanisms of the world and so forth. All these things make her holy, not that she was the sole victimized sole in the universe. And when did she ever have that thought? That just seems like conjecture on your behalf, not textual evidence and I know how you feel about textual evidence.....

[Cynical Cat]

Remember also the words of the survivor "Her strongest instinct is mercy."  That might also play into her holiness, especially if all are one with the Absolute.

[MSJ]

Remember also the words of the survivor "Her strongest instinct is mercy."  That might also play into her holiness, especially if all are one with the Absolute.

Indeed. And, when first reading that Mimara forgave Koringhus I thought, "Wow, Mimara really can forgive, imagine all the implications from this. She could forgive whole swaths of souls." I'm not so sure now, I think the Eye approved/forgave Koringhus because he came to understand what is holy and righteous. How to live, so to say. I truly do not believe that Mimara will be able to forgive any and all who she feels deserves another chance. But, her mercy and those who come to understand will be forgiven. So, probably not a whole lot. Truly, the more I think about it, I like H's theory that Mimara will gaze upon the No-God with the JE and answer it's questions and completely undo it.

[Madness]

Even most teenagers manage that.

Lol.

[mrganondorf]

MSJ, you might be right--I'm thinking that if the Consult can trap Mimara in the Carapace, if she is the mortal vessel of Yatwer, that might be the Consult's mechanism for trapping Yatwer and stopping birth.

MG,  my thinking is more like this, during the FA,  the No-God was fundamentaly flawed and still is. It cannot see,  it's what holds him back. The true prophecy, Mimara in the Carapace with the JE will allow the No-God to see what exactly he is and ultimately could be the undoing of the No-God at the same time. Mimara answering the No-Gods questions while in the Carapace could lead to the collapse of the No-God. Harken, it's hinted that the Heron Spear is not want stopped the No-God. What if Leva was placed in the carapace and also had the JE and answered all those questions the No-God seeks and essentially ended him with the answers.

Now, I really like H's theory and won't discount it,  I just have a feeling that the Consult needs Mimara, hence protecting her. Maybe Kellhus's way to destroy the No-God is through Mimara and the JE. I just think this is a great conversation and would love to hear others thoughts.

MSJ, you might be right--I'm thinking that if the Consult can trap Mimara in the Carapace, if she is the mortal vessel of Yatwer, that might be the Consult's mechanism for trapping Yatwer and stopping birth.

MG,  my thinking is more like this, during the FA,  the No-God was fundamentaly flawed and still is. It cannot see,  it's what holds him back. The true prophecy, Mimara in the Carapace with the JE will allow the No-God to see what exactly he is and ultimately could be the undoing of the No-God at the same time. Mimara answering the No-Gods questions while in the Carapace could lead to the collapse of the No-God. Harken, it's hinted that the Heron Spear is not want stopped the No-God. What if Leva was placed in the carapace and also had the JE and answered all those questions the No-God seeks and essentially ended him with the answers.

Now, I really like H's theory and won't discount it,  I just have a feeling that the Consult needs Mimara, hence protecting her. Maybe Kellhus's way to destroy the No-God is through Mimara and the JE. I just think this is a great conversation and would love to hear others thoughts.

I don't know MSJ, it feels like the blindness is an essential part of what makes Mog Mog.  What if the manufacture of 1 Mog unit involves finding someone with the Judging Eye and then 'blinding' it?  Maybe not like gouging, maybe the Carapace is like a blindfold.  Hmm, I wonder if it's the interior surface of the Carapace that is the real fancy part?

You know, if the Consult had made that thing out of Ark-Metal, I don't know that the Heron Spear or anything else would bust it up.  Maybe that's what they'll do this time around.

Also wondering if Bakker is throwing us off with that comment (wherever it was) about the Consult collecting Mog's body after it was blasted with the HSpear.  Maybe there were more than one persons in there.  Maybe like a family.  Some kind of ultra-atrocity going on

[MSJ]

Yea, I agree. I like H's idea that Mimara will answer the No-God's questions through the JE, this undoing it. Pretty badass.

[Yellow]

Yea, I agree. I like H's idea that Mimara will answer the No-God's questions through the JE, this undoing it. Pretty badass.

I hadn't even considered this. Nice one, H!

[Cynical Cat]

I wonder if the Judging Eye can even see the No-God.  The gods, after all, cannot perceive Mog-Pheru.

[H]

I wonder if the Judging Eye can even see the No-God.  The gods, after all, cannot perceive Mog-Pheru.

But the Judging Eye isn't a God.  It is the cubit, the fundiment of the creation.  If it is anything, it is the God of Gods.  I don't think that will be an issue, but I'm open to being wrong.

[Cynical Cat]

I wonder if the Judging Eye can even see the No-God.  The gods, after all, cannot perceive Mog-Pheru.

But the Judging Eye isn't a God.  It is the cubit, the fundiment of the creation.  If it is anything, it is the God of Gods.  I don't think that will be an issue, but I'm open to being wrong.

Is it?  If it is sight from the vantage point of the gods then the No-God could be as invisible to it as it is to the Hundred.  It will be interesting, one way or another.

[H]

But the Judging Eye isn't a God.  It is the cubit, the fundiment of the creation.  If it is anything, it is the God of Gods.  I don't think that will be an issue, but I'm open to being wrong.

Is it?  If it is sight from the vantage point of the gods then the No-God could be as invisible to it as it is to the Hundred.  It will be interesting, one way or another.

Well, if we are to believe Koringhus, it is different than the view from a God, because it is the view from the God.  This is why it is the God of Gods.  It is what precedes the Gods.  What the Gods were divided from.  What they are built from.  This is why he surmises the Zero-God.

I'm inclined to believe him, at least in so far as that the Judging Eye is the view from Zero, from the Cubit, and that this puts it distinct from any of the Hundred.  Indeed, this would be the view from the Solitary God, if I believed He was manifest (but I don't, He is a theoretical concept which doesn't yet exist, because the 100 are divided).  As such, I don't think anything is outside of sight of The Judging Eye, which I think is one of the main points of why Mimara is so important.

[Cynical Cat]

All souls connect to the Absolute and every man could feel the presence of the No-God but the Hundred were blind to Mog-Pheru.  This is going to come down to exactly how the Judging Eye functions and how the No-God's powers operate.   How can a being be sensed by every living man and blind the gods?  How does that work if we're all connected to the Absolute?  From exactly what vantage does the Judging Eye see and what does that mean about the nature of salvation and damnation?  About the connection of the Hundred to the Absolute and who decrees damnation and salvation? 

I think there's a couple more pieces of the puzzle to pick up.

[H]

All souls connect to the Absolute and every man could feel the presence of the No-God but the Hundred were blind to Mog-Pheru.  This is going to come down to exactly how the Judging Eye functions and how the No-God's powers operate.   How can a being be sensed by every living man and blind the gods?  How does that work if we're all connected to the Absolute?  From exactly what vantage does the Judging Eye see and what does that mean about the nature of salvation and damnation?  About the connection of the Hundred to the Absolute and who decrees damnation and salvation? 

I think there's a couple more pieces of the puzzle to pick up.

Well, it could be (and I'm just making shit up here, I am no doubt wrong) that the No-God is actually "closer" to the Absolute than any of the Hundred.  This could be because while each God is separate from The Absolute, the No-God is simply an inversion of the Absolute.  There are no doubt a ton of gaps in here and I am not trying to make it seem like I have all the pieces of the puzzle, let alone put it together.

However, the Gods being apart from The Absolute (Zero-God, Solitary God, Cubit) makes sense that they hunger for damnation though, if we consider, as you say, all souls connect to the Absolute.  If the Gods were cleft from the substance, or Being, or something, of the Absolute, then we might imagine they are attempting to reconcile with it, or are fueled by it?  If a soul reaches the Absolute (salvation?), it is beyond the reach of any of the 100, i.e. not food for a God.  However, if they are damned, they get caught by a God and are "food."