[TGO Spoilers] Kellhus

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MSJ

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« on: July 14, 2016, 07:36:37 am »
ARC thread here.

First post:

Quote from: Blackstone
What is Kellhus's intention?

I was pretty surprised that we got POVs from Kellhus. I wonder if RSB's test readers were once again confused about Kellhus (much like in the initial draft of TTT) which prompted some rewrites with Kellhus getting POV chapters.

I suppose that up until the end of the battle for Dagliash, I assumed that Kellhus's plan was to defeat the Consult with the GO and then figure out a way to close the world to the Gods (which I think we see in the new version of the Celmomian Prophecy--which blew my mind in slow motion btw). He takes great pains to show Proyas that the Gods care nothing for men (to get buy in for closing the world). Kellhus is completely prepared to sacrifice everyone at home. Then comes the Inch-Nuke and Kellhus's departure from the GO.

I think what surprised me the most in the book was that Kellhus went HOME. He was ready to sacrifice Momemn, and then he returns. Has he decided the GO is doomed? Is he going to try to build another ordeal? It wouldn't seem feasible, considering that all the Schools now march with Proyas. (It's my assumption that Vim-Mithriti was the last sorcerer in the Three Seas). So what's the plan now?
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Ciogli

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« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2016, 04:35:54 pm »
Yes, Kellhus returning home was the biggest why, my favorite moment in the book was when he was looking at the saggomontic device and said that not all can be saved. It gave me the sense that the secrets of the Consult were being revealed, like Kellhus was finally discovering the deepest of his foes secrets. But he must have always intended to return home, preparing Programs so carefully and abandoning the Ordeal at this critical juncture, when the Ordeal is at its most vulnerable. But because Kellhus does almost nothing spontaneously, he sent the cipher any to kill the Data Khan and his line, making Sronga the new Data Khan. I expect that he has been fighting outside Kayutas and now cannot help but to except the truth of Kellhus war, following Proyas into Agongorea. Time is of the essence, they cannot hope to overcome the saggomontic fortress without Kellhus, their is a plan that we are not seeing, that involves Zeum and now a somewhat believer king.

themerchant

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« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2016, 06:57:40 pm »
Well ostensibly he spent months conditioning Proyas to make decisions no believer king could.

He re-appeared with just enough time to take care of Fanayal/Pstama/Meppa and then ask Esme what she had done (let it happen) side step the white-luck warrior timeline via his son and then send another servant to Zeum. While leaving a conditioned agent to take care of the ordeal.

Still don't know the reasons.


themerchant

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« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2016, 07:07:29 pm »
Maybe Kellhus knew about the nuke somehow, wanted to get rid of horde before the No-God walked. So he created the circumstances to concentrate them all in one area and then blow them up.


Ciogli

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« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2016, 11:10:18 pm »
I don't think he knew of the nuke, he concentrated to much with its discovery, I think maybe that changed his calculation of what he would do next.

CondYoke

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« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2016, 11:15:34 pm »
I am probably ignoring pages already written, but going back to TTT, I was always captured by Kelhus' view of Moengus's vision- that there would be "manufactured catastrophes", leading to the Consult destroying "whole nations" to get to 144K. I can't help but think this is exactly the path that Kelhus follows- the destruction of the Army of the South that was destroyed at Ishri in WLW, the nuke at Dagliash (he can sense the chorae, the hordes but not a nuke?) and imagine if Sorweel hadn't saved the army of the North- add that to his feeding the GO Scranc, and then abandoning them in their hour of need, it feels like those manufactured catastrophes.
I think he could have averted most of those. I'm still not sure of his end game.

Bolivar

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« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2016, 03:33:44 am »
I'm convinced he knew of the Nuke ahead of time and used it for some purpose.

When they start storming Dagliash, Kellhus tells Saubon not to fear for Kellhus' safety. He knew what he was doing and wanted to make sure Saubon didn't hazard anything that might get in the way of what he was about to do.

He basically excavates the coffer and then personally steers it out.

When Saubon asks him what the glowing script means, presumably a countdown, Kellhus knows what it means, saying it signifies that not all can be saved. When Saubon asks him what Kellhus says about it, he replies that it's a good thing.

His talk with Proyas afterwards sounds like he's covering it up, how Proyas is the only one who knows the truth of what happens and that this was the purpose of their conversations. He also knows about nuclear fallout and radiation poisoning ahead of time.

Fuck me, I can't believe a fucking nuke went off at Dagliash.

MSJ

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« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2016, 08:45:34 am »
I can't wait to re-read that last 4 or 5 chapters slowly and take it all in. That said, I got the impression that Kellhus brought the Nuke up on accident. If it was intentional, what was the Aurang flyby for? I thought that he either placed the Nuke or triggered the countdown/engaged, what have you.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Bolivar

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« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2016, 02:35:18 pm »
I definitely think that's a possibility, since it explains why Aurang was there at all and why he didn't stick around to answer Saccarees. At the same time, it's too much for me that Kellhus already knows about the effects of nuclear fallout and radiation poisoning mere moments after it goes off. I also don't think Aurang placed it, since it seemed Kellhus had to actively dig very deep to finally get it. Maybe he had some remote transmitter that started the countdown but then I also remember he was to the North of the mountains, away from where the fighting was. It could have just as easily been one of his routine fly-bys to survey the field.

themerchant

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« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2016, 02:56:48 pm »
or maybe Aurang was there to make sure Kellhus kept his part of the bargain...

H

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« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2016, 03:01:19 pm »
When I happened to accidentally flip to that part again, I did notice that the Tekne-Bomb came up right after Aurang showed up.  It certainly seems plausible that Aurang actually pulled it up (hence why he came at all) and all Kellhus did was make a snap decision based off what he figured it was.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

Simas Polchias

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« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2016, 01:24:33 pm »
At the same time, it's too much for me that Kellhus already knows about the effects of nuclear fallout and radiation poisoning mere moments after it goes off.
No-God's destruction had a similar outcome, so nuclear tekne seems to be rather ancient. Consult could have used few bomb in the FA, leaving both ground signs and survivors' descriptions (diaries etc, which never left besieged northen fortressed). With his pocket teleporter Kellhus could actually took these knowlegde form his own field scouting and intel plundering.

Also, metagnosis, cants who deliver the generalization of the ground.

PS So, did someone nuke No-God in the FA?
« Last Edit: July 16, 2016, 07:36:00 pm by Simas Polchias »

Bertxi

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« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2016, 04:19:02 pm »
I almost feel sorry for Kelhus in a way now, he goes back to Momen because he does truely care for Esmenent; albiet a Dunyains love is fish cold, and as soon as he arrives that first look at her face and he realizes what she had done and what she hopes to do. His brother killed, two children dead and a wife that wants him dead. And this is all before he will most assuradly look upon Kelmomas' face......(though im betting Ajokli will shield his favorite toy).

Bolivar

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« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2016, 04:37:29 pm »
It was an interesting turn on the conversation between Inrilatas and Maithanet in WLW, where Inrilatas argues, and Maithanet does not dispute, that Kellhus is compromising the shortest path to appease Esmenet when he needs to. I'm not quite convinced he really does care for her, more like she has some further role to play in his machinations. It might be Serwe's brokenness that allowed the outside to seep in around Kellhus and bring him so much fortune during the First Holy War and that he might be trying to break Esmenet in a similar way so that it happens again, this time by murdering her children.

Cüréthañ

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« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2016, 01:40:57 am »
I strongly doubt that Kellhus returned to Momenn for Esme's sake, or even the fate of the new Empire.
Retracing his bloody footprints, the Wizard limped on.