[TGO SPOILERS] The Parts Appalling

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Madness

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« on: July 15, 2016, 03:30:37 pm »
Previous thread here:

I was just curious to know what parts of the book all of you found to be the most disturbing. My list in no particular order:

The whale mothers
Saubon's damnation and the link to the vision on Mangedda
Related - Kellhus abandoning Saubon at Dagliash
Kellhus banging Proyas (not for homophobic reasons, it just strikes me as disturbing what with all the mental anguish and the fact that Proyas has shown no propensity toward gay sex--I doubt sexual desire matters to a Dunyain) 
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Bolivar

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« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2016, 09:09:02 pm »
The Proyas scene was by far the most disturbing to me. It's up there with the White Luck Warrior ending in that it actually made me question why I'm reading the series, although the shock value of both is much lessened in hindsight. I wouldn't otherwise be into the series if I wasn't already a fan of dark fantasy but I do think you can go too far, although I admit it's hard for me to articulate why.

I've read a lot of post-nuclear Sci Fi in the past, so I knew what was coming, but the descriptions of the Scalded was nonetheless incredibly harrowing.

The book was amazing but overall I would say it was one of the most depressing works I've read in a while.

JRControl

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« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2016, 12:29:37 am »
The grimness definitively turns up to 11. The descriptions of the Nonmen Mansion...the ultimate asylum ran by the inmates. I don't know why. Their millennial anguish, their depravity...it stays with me.
“Because you’re a pious man born to a world unable to fathom your piety. But all that changes with me, Akka. The old food pyramids have outlived the age of their intention, and I have come to reveal the new. I am the Slimmest Path, and I say that you are not damned.”

Litgreg

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« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2016, 11:55:41 am »
I think the Saubon scene is so distiurbing because from his perspective he's done everything right, and only in the moment when it is too late does he realize he placed his trust in the wrong person. Really drives home the theme of certainty and the damage it can do.

One thing I'd like to see before the end is some notion of what WON'T damn you. Rught now, so far as I'm aware, Mimara is going to be one lonely soul when she dies.

H

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« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2016, 02:22:28 pm »
I think the Saubon scene is so distiurbing because from his perspective he's done everything right, and only in the moment when it is too late does he realize he placed his trust in the wrong person. Really drives home the theme of certainty and the damage it can do.

One thing I'd like to see before the end is some notion of what WON'T damn you. Rught now, so far as I'm aware, Mimara is going to be one lonely soul when she dies.

What if the Truth is that there is not such thing as Salvation?  There is only either Damnation or Oblivion?
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

profgrape

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« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2016, 10:24:01 pm »
I think the Saubon scene is so distiurbing because from his perspective he's done everything right, and only in the moment when it is too late does he realize he placed his trust in the wrong person. Really drives home the theme of certainty and the damage it can do.

One thing I'd like to see before the end is some notion of what WON'T damn you. Rught now, so far as I'm aware, Mimara is going to be one lonely soul when she dies.

What if the Truth is that there is not such thing as Salvation?  There is only either Damnation or Oblivion?

That was my take-away, H.  The only afterlife is damnation.  The lucky ones, as stated in Ecclesiastes, "do not know anything."

geoffrobro

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« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2016, 08:11:21 pm »
Omg that is Christianity. Either you burn in hell or you become a endlessly praying mindless soul.
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EkyannusIII

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« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2016, 09:47:45 pm »
Are you sure your concept of Christianity isn't derived from r/fedoramancer bro?
What is reason, but the blindness of the soul?

R. SCOTT RAP3ZT TERRIBLEZ LOLZ.

if Kellhus was thinking all of this, he's going to freak out when he get's back and Kelmomas is all "i lieks to eatum peeples da"

the whole thing is orchestrated by Kellhus who is wearing a Bashrag as if it were a suit

The Great Scald

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« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2016, 10:07:50 pm »
Quote
I was just curious to know what parts of the book all of you found to be the most disturbing.

Bakker's repeated use...of ellipses...and italics to emphasize profundity.

profgrape

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« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2016, 03:50:13 pm »
Omg that is Christianity. Either you burn in hell or you become a endlessly praying mindless soul.

Haha, Geoffbro.  Full disclosure: I'm not too familiar with the old testament.  But I remembered reading somewhere about how the concepts of heaven and hell aren't really in the old testament and that quote from Ecclesiates was included. 

As Bakker's stated in interviews, the metaphysics of Earwa are loosely based on our distant ancestors' conception of metaphysics.  What's interesting to me is that while Earwa has the idea of damnation, it doesn't seem to have the idea of a heavenly afterlife.  Rewards for "good" deeds and service are granted in life but punishment for "bad" deeds is dealt with in the afterlife.

A metaphysical whodunit indeed!



Madness

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« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2016, 05:41:50 pm »
Quote
I was just curious to know what parts of the book all of you found to be the most disturbing.

Bakker's repeated use...of ellipses...and italics to emphasize profundity.

Lol - we had a thread in the TGO ARC Discussion about things of this nature.
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Omnirom

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« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2016, 06:57:55 pm »
I liked the Proyas scene.  Was totally unexpected;  my wife saw me laughing reading it,  and I explained to her "one of the characters is really getting fucked in the ass, spiritually, psychologically, metaphorically and physically"

Wilshire

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« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2016, 07:06:29 pm »
Quote
I was just curious to know what parts of the book all of you found to be the most disturbing.

Bakker's repeated use...of ellipses...and italics to emphasize profundity.

Haha yes. The use of ellipses started to get jarring for me after a time :) . Glad I'm not the only one.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

spacemost

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« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2016, 08:01:27 pm »
Saubon's damnation and the link to the vision on Mangedda
Someone refresh my brain on this one, please.

Madness

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« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2016, 04:01:42 pm »
Saubon's damnation and the link to the vision on Mangedda
Someone refresh my brain on this one, please.

In TWP, Saubon gets clubbed in the head at Mengedda and experiences the "other half" of his vision in TGO.
The Existential Scream
Weaponizing the Warrior Pose - Declare War Inwardly
carnificibus: multus sanguis fluit
Die Better
The Theory-Killer