(TGO Spoilers) Son of the Survivor

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Monkhound

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« Reply #45 on: September 19, 2016, 06:08:47 am »
Maybe the boy's not defective?  Not likely, but he's labelled as "defective" by someone with a bit of an insanity problem.

Didn't the defect in this case have to do with a phisical defect? There was something wrong with his fingers, no?
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Ciogli

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« Reply #46 on: September 19, 2016, 08:43:51 am »
I think his defect was emotional, he still had familial passions, much like Kelmommas except not a psychopath. That is why the assessor deemed him defective in the crib, he could see the emotional attachment of the child. The fingers would be of no concern to the Dunyain.
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MSJ

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« Reply #47 on: September 19, 2016, 10:51:48 pm »
I think his defect was emotional, he still had familial passions, much like Kelmommas except not a psychopath. That is why the assessor deemed him defective in the crib, he could see the emotional attachment of the child. The fingers would be of no concern to the Dunyain.

For some reason, I thought the boy lost his fingers while him and Koringhus were fighting to stal alive fighting the Sranc.
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Titan

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« Reply #48 on: September 20, 2016, 12:30:49 am »
I think his defect was emotional, he still had familial passions, much like Kelmommas except not a psychopath. That is why the assessor deemed him defective in the crib, he could see the emotional attachment of the child. The fingers would be of no concern to the Dunyain.

I always interpreted emotions in Dunyain as something that was drilled out of them by instruction & practice - not something they had mostly bred out of their gene pool.

Yellow

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« Reply #49 on: September 20, 2016, 05:57:55 am »
I think it's definitely both aspects. But, not sure it's been bred out to the extent that an infant would retain no emotions at all.
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Ciogli

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« Reply #50 on: October 01, 2016, 01:03:22 am »
I think Theliopa is illustrative of the Dunyain gnome, she had emotions but they were very stunted and muted. Kellhus said to Esmenet that they tried to breed emotions out of themselves, and the training further stunts this. The Assessor saw too much emotion in the child and labelled him defective. His physical and mental traits should be at the leading edge of the Dunyain genome considering his father and grandfather were prodigies of the Dunyain. He may have more natural ability than Kellhus himself, except he is untrained. If it was not for the Celmommian vision in TGO I would have speculated that he was the Anasurimbor that would come at the end of all things.
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Doubt

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« Reply #51 on: October 01, 2016, 01:16:27 pm »
I think people are making a huge leap here - we don't even know if the child showed more emotions than other Dunyain babies. Even if he did, it's a baby. I'd be surprised if the assessor could tell how much emotional a baby would be when it grows up. Even if he could, their entire lives are dedicated to the Logos and removal from emotions. I don't think babies who cry or laugh too much would be branded as defective. He does have a fucked up hand though, so chuck him in the defected room.

@Ciphrank, it was Koringhus who could not deny the interval between himself and his son, not the other way around.
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« Reply #52 on: October 01, 2016, 02:31:10 pm »
I like your avatar, Doubt.
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Doubt

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« Reply #53 on: October 01, 2016, 06:05:11 pm »
Ta. I like yours more  ;)
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Ciogli

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« Reply #54 on: October 01, 2016, 08:20:02 pm »
But if it was the hand their would be no need for the assessor, anyone could see the crippled hand, the way Koringhus remembered the encounter it was a preliminary assessment. Not final but a mature Dunyain assessment that was his craft.


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Somnambulist

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« Reply #55 on: October 02, 2016, 02:06:55 am »
Also, the passage from TGO says "Three fingers had been lopped from his right hand."  Lopped, not merely missing.  I think there was also mention of scars (supporting the lopped off description).  If it was congenital, there wouldn't be scars. 

Anyway, in one of her sections in TJE (I think), Esmi reminisces she could tell relatively early how 'human' her children were (or weren't).  Pretty sure a Dunyain assessor, whose job it is to determine such things, could tell pretty much instantly if one of their kids was defective or not.

IMO
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Monkhound

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« Reply #56 on: October 02, 2016, 09:17:40 am »
Also, the passage from TGO says "Three fingers had been lopped from his right hand."  Lopped, not merely missing.  I think there was also mention of scars (supporting the lopped off description).  If it was congenital, there wouldn't be scars. 

Anyway, in one of her sections in TJE (I think), Esmi reminisces she could tell relatively early how 'human' her children were (or weren't).  Pretty sure a Dunyain assessor, whose job it is to determine such things, could tell pretty much instantly if one of their kids was defective or not.

IMO

Weren't the scars about Korringhus? I remember the "Cuts and cuts and cuts" being about him, anyway.
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Doubt

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« Reply #57 on: October 02, 2016, 10:29:57 pm »
Yeahp, cool so I misremembered.  ;D It's handy having the book back :D
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Bolivar

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« Reply #58 on: October 03, 2016, 04:24:10 am »
I'm with the mindset that the Survivor's son wasn't defective because of any emotional or physical stunting - just that a Dunyain could look at him and for any number of reasons decide that he wasn't going to make it through the program.

I like the posts distinguishing him from the other Dunyain outside of Ishual. Unlike Kellhus and Khoringas, he's not subjected to the Wilderness after a lifetime dedicated to the Logos. And unlike Kelmomas, he wasn't born into a world already worshipping him as divine. There's definitely the possibility that he has more potential than the other Anasurimbor characters we have, despite any perceived defects.

I'm hoping Kellhus brings Esme and Kelmomas to the other characters in the Ordeal for how epic the Akka & Esme reunion would be. But now I'm thinking the Kelmomas and Survivor's Son confrontation would be even more epic.

MSJ

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« Reply #59 on: October 03, 2016, 05:22:38 am »
Quote
I'm hoping Kellhus brings Esme and Kelmomas to the other characters in the Ordeal for how epic the Akka & Esme reunion would be. But now I'm thinking the Kelmomas and Survivor's Son confrontation would be even more epic.

Bakker said that Akka and Esme would reunite.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,