[TGO SPOILERS] The Amiolas

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MG

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« on: August 07, 2016, 05:41:22 am »
Well, this was a goddamn cool part of the book. 

That nonman had to be pretty fucked up to get a death sentence from Cujara, but then he must have done something pretty awesome to get it amended by Nil-Giccas.  It's going to be fun to see what kind of warlord Sorweel has turned into.  Being uber-ruthless is going to play well with Kellhus.  "Sure you can date my daughter now that your soul is half-ghoul, that would be swell!"

Wonder if Akka is getting someone else's soul through that shirt?  Oinaral's comment about how the takeover happens faster if the wearer is ignorant made me wonder if someone is going to unknowingly get something like an Amiolas.  I wonder if Moenghus will get another Amiolas to make some sense of his brutalized person.

Maybe Sorweel gets a little bit of other people who have worn the Amiolas too?  Could have been some Anasurimbors back there.

The part about Serwa thinking Sorweel is real makes me think that Sorweel got more of the Amiolas soul than previous wearers did and/or the human/nonman combination might be a sum greater than it's parts--she doesn't seem to think that Harapior or the other nonmen have especially neat souls (she doesn't say that she, Inrilatas, Kellhus and all nonmen are real)

Onrack

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« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2016, 10:32:19 am »
I also really liked it, reminded me of something from Malazan in it's inspired craziness. Would definitely like to see it's effects on other people, or how people perceive it. Is Sorweel now damned for having put it on etc.

Is Sorweel still going to be half-ghoul though? I thought the implication in that last chapter was that Oirunas had ripped it off of him, and therefore severed the connection between the two souls.

Quote
"The Lord of the Watch, who had ceded all sanity to the Dolour so long ago, hoised the Son of Sorweel slack, and then wrenched him in two"

Madness

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« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2016, 11:39:55 pm »
Well, this was a goddamn cool part of the book.

Fuck ya.

Wonder if Akka is getting someone else's soul through that shirt?  Oinaral's comment about how the takeover happens faster if the wearer is ignorant made me wonder if someone is going to unknowingly get something like an Amiolas.  I wonder if Moenghus will get another Amiolas to make some sense of his brutalized person.

Lol - I still don't support your "every sorcerous object is now like the Amiolas" conjecture ;).

(she doesn't say that she, Inrilatas, Kellhus and all nonmen are real)

I'm rereading now - and extremely slow going at that - but I don't think she perceives the Nonmen "as real."

I also really liked it, reminded me of something from Malazan in it's inspired craziness. Would definitely like to see it's effects on other people, or how people perceive it. Is Sorweel now damned for having put it on etc.

Is Sorweel still going to be half-ghoul though? I thought the implication in that last chapter was that Oirunas had ripped it off of him, and therefore severed the connection between the two souls.

Quote
"The Lord of the Watch, who had ceded all sanity to the Dolour so long ago, hoised the Son of Sorweel slack, and then wrenched him in two"

It depends how you want to define permanent change and I don't agree with MG necessarily. I do think that Sorweel has obviously seen himself irrevocably from a perspective that he won't forget. But I guess time will tell how much Immiricas' estimation of him influences his decisions in the future.

Also, I just wanted to repeat my conjecture from the Cast - that I promise is still coming - that the Amiolas is also a metaphor for reading a book ;).
« Last Edit: August 07, 2016, 11:46:49 pm by Madness »
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MG

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« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2016, 04:54:19 pm »
"Also, I just wanted to repeat my conjecture from the Cast - that I promise is still coming - that the Amiolas is also a metaphor for reading a book ;)."

Fuck yeah!  Nice.

I wonder if Sorweel's young age + the length of time since the Amiolas has last gotten to invade a human = Sorweel will have a lot more than 50% ghoul in him?

I can't remember the nonman's name who is the master builder guy who built the Amiolas, but I wonder if he never died and the Consult have him working on the No-God/Carapace.  Could be that the long line of humans are victims--this nonman creative commits atrocity every other minute in order to hold his shit together.

MSJ

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« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2016, 10:19:34 pm »
MG, I agree the Aimolas has changed Sorweel without a doubt. As Serwa remarks, he is real now. What I took from the Tall wrenching him in two, was simply ripping the Aimolas off his face. And,/I think part of what makes him real is that Yatwers spit is no longer there, it was flayed away. Sorweel is going to be a great character from here on out. I see him and Serwa having a connection.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

MG

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« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2016, 04:25:02 am »
MG, I agree the Aimolas has changed Sorweel without a doubt. As Serwa remarks, he is real now. What I took from the Tall wrenching him in two, was simply ripping the Aimolas off his face. And,/I think part of what makes him real is that Yatwers spit is no longer there, it was flayed away. Sorweel is going to be a great character from here on out. I see him and Serwa having a connection.

That is interesting!  No more spit!  I am curious to see if you are right--very intrigued.  I wonder if the blended soul (minus divine interference) will be a wild card in Kellhus' plan?  That is, he may have a catalogue of expected behaviors from Sorweel that won't match the new Sorweel.  Another step to bring that pouch nearer to its disastrous target.

MSJ

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« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2016, 02:35:02 pm »
That is interesting!  No more spit!  I am curious to see if you are right--very intrigued.  I wonder if the blended soul (minus divine interference) will be a wild card in Kellhus' plan?  That is, he may have a catalogue of expected behaviors from Sorweel that won't match the new Sorweel.  Another step to bring that pouch nearer to its disastrous target.

Just remember, who is the only other person that Serwa described as real? Kellhus. So, Sorweel is going to be a big deal moving forward. I really like the thought that a part of the Nonman from the Aimolas is fused with his soul now.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

MG

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« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2016, 03:15:19 pm »
That is interesting!  No more spit!  I am curious to see if you are right--very intrigued.  I wonder if the blended soul (minus divine interference) will be a wild card in Kellhus' plan?  That is, he may have a catalogue of expected behaviors from Sorweel that won't match the new Sorweel.  Another step to bring that pouch nearer to its disastrous target.

Just remember, who is the only other person that Serwa described as real? Kellhus. So, Sorweel is going to be a big deal moving forward. I really like the thought that a part of the Nonman from the Aimolas is fused with his soul now.

Sorweel will for sure be special, but I hesitate to think that Serwa really understands him.  She is uber-proud of herself and straight up blinded to her own ignorance--Moe saw what she was blinded to thinking that she could read Sorweel's face.  All that stuff about her being able to manipulate her siblings, even Kayutas--strikes me as the kind of thing Kayutas would let on to a younger half-dunyain to make her think that she was the smartestest of the pack.

Cynical Cat

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« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2016, 01:17:40 pm »
Well, this was a goddamn cool part of the book. 

That nonman had to be pretty fucked up to get a death sentence from Cujara, but then he must have done something pretty awesome to get it amended by Nil-Giccas. 

The back of the book says his crime was sedition, which is something that does get you a death sentence.  This is a guy who was called "The Despiser" so he probably said a lot of things that made him enemies.  Kings don't like people saying they shouldn't be running the show and Cujara was "one who valued vengeance over mercy."   He probably hadn't offended Nil-Giccas nearly as badly, which is fair.  Cujara is the one carrying around the "I was tricked into allowing my enemies to genocide my species" card and is probably both more likely to receive biting invective and more sensitive to it.

« Last Edit: September 28, 2016, 02:34:01 am by Cynical Cat »

Wilshire

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« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2016, 07:19:35 pm »
The back of the book says
Given Overlook and how shitty they are, I assume that, like the covers, the back of the book is just some random guy, except instead of his picture we get some random guy's words. No input from Bakker, little to no relevance to the story. Just my opinion.
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Hirtius/Pansa

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« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2016, 11:54:30 pm »
Cynical Cat is referring to the appendix of characters not the back-back of the book. The list of characters was certainly written by Bakker.

Cynical Cat

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« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2016, 02:35:53 am »
Yes, the list of characters in the back of the book, not the back cover blurb written by some random guy.

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« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2016, 03:33:44 pm »
I didn't notice that there was a character and faction glossary in TGO. Immiricas is included?
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« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2016, 07:52:15 pm »
Yup.  Immiriccas—Son of Cinial, imprisoned in the Amiloas for sedition.  That's his blurb.

Cu'mimiral and Sujara-nin also get blurbs.  But those two are pretty bit characters who have like one line apiece. We'll probably see them and Cilculiccas in TUC a fair bit more.

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« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2016, 01:47:45 pm »
I hadn't even bothered with looking at that.

I suppose that means that Immiriccas is Cinial'jin's (of FR fame) relation.
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