[TGO SPOILERS] Kellhus/Bakker

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Hogman

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« on: August 19, 2016, 10:14:27 am »
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"...We are all mummers here! All of us! Prophet or not, our Holy Aspect Emperor must control what Men see...All of us have roles to play, Proyas, and no one gets to choose which."
"What are you saying!"
"That our parts remain to be written. Perhaps you're to be the fool...or the traitor...or the long-suffering doubter...". A bleary gaze, filled with hilarity and rheumy spite. "Only he knows!"

Did anyone else read this and think there's a double meaning here? On the face of it "he" is Kellhus. But it's also Bakker. Only he knows what will happen.

Callan S.

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« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2016, 10:16:41 am »
And ripping off Shakespeare as well! :)

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All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances,
And one man in his time plays many parts,

H

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« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2016, 01:01:34 pm »
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"...We are all mummers here! All of us! Prophet or not, our Holy Aspect Emperor must control what Men see...All of us have roles to play, Proyas, and no one gets to choose which."
"What are you saying!"
"That our parts remain to be written. Perhaps you're to be the fool...or the traitor...or the long-suffering doubter...". A bleary gaze, filled with hilarity and rheumy spite. "Only he knows!"

Did anyone else read this and think there's a double meaning here? On the face of it "he" is Kellhus. But it's also Bakker. Only he knows what will happen.

I've said it before, but if Bakker "is" anyone in the story, he is definitely Ajolki.  Triple entendre perhaps?
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasűrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

The Sharmat

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« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2016, 02:21:25 pm »
If any character is some kind of author avatar it's Achamian.

Wilshire

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« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2016, 06:30:23 pm »
If any character is some kind of author avatar it's Achamian.

This.


Also, if anyone read the back of TGO, the acknowledgments clearly state that Bakker is not Kellhus (I believe the first line is "Kellhus I am not"). Also if you havent checked that out, everyone should. The forum gets a mention, w00t.
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Madness

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« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2016, 01:14:38 pm »
The forum gets a mention, w00t.

So much has changed even just since WLW came out. Though, you know, going further back, it's still surprising that Bakker had a fan forum (ZTS) like his first year out...
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The Sharmat

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« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2016, 11:30:35 pm »
This is cult series material and has been from the start. Little to appeal to a general audience. Few fans, but those that exist are bound to be fanatical since there's nothing else in the market like it.

Callan S.

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« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2016, 03:33:15 am »
Eh, I'd be curious to see graphs of fans for other fantasy that went on to be fairly mainstream and where they started out. I suspect with the early adopters forming the core of the snowball for some time, accumulating in a slow but exponential curve. I mean, didn't GRRM do stuff before GOT - and it wasn't really on the radar?

I think though that the curve takes longer the more you try to bring up socially controversial ideas. But SA would be like a dead dragon without those - just rusting, iron bones.

Anyway, I work on my serial numbers filed off derivative text based game...it'll have links to the blog and such, so it's a promo tool. Peeps could always look for fan fiction forums and drop some home made SA stuff there :)

The Sharmat

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« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2016, 06:27:22 am »
The Gurm's pre-GOT stuff was mostly short stories back in the 60's and 70's.

I'm really skeptical SA will ever have broad appeal. Which is fine. Not everything can or should.

Hogman

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« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2016, 08:39:09 am »
From reviews I've read of the SA, a lot of people slate it because of the status of women in the books. Never mind that it's an accurate reflection of the way the world used to be, and still is in some places. If it ever makes it onto TV, I imagine there would be some politically correct editing, to introduce some strong female characters. The mainstream audience must be catered for, and they love their Arya Starks.

Wilshire

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« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2016, 03:21:04 pm »
I'm really skeptical SA will ever have broad appeal. Which is fine. Not everything can or should.

I imagine there would be some politically correct editing

Yup. Lots of that I'm sure.

And TBH, I'm over it. I'd prefer to see details changed in a way that remains mostly true to the overall point of the story but makes TSA the TV series successful, than have a show canceled after 3 episodes that no one ever watches. I will look at it as a derivative work based on TSA books, and do my best to avoid whining about the changes.

Throwing in some stronger female characters from the start would do wonders for making it more appealing - or at least keep it from being totally written off. Besides, more women breaking up the sausage fest that is PoN will make it more visually appealing for many viewers as well, right?

Btw, I don't think we even know what the 'overall point' of the series is. Until TUC is finished, and probably not even then, will there be any consensus on that. Which makes it really tough to determine how important every detail is, and what kind of impact it'll have. 
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The Sharmat

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« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2016, 05:03:09 pm »
From reviews I've read of the SA, a lot of people slate it because of the status of women in the books. Never mind that it's an accurate reflection of the way the world used to be, and still is in some places. If it ever makes it onto TV, I imagine there would be some politically correct editing, to introduce some strong female characters. The mainstream audience must be catered for, and they love their Arya Starks.
Arya Stark was great in the books but the show pretty much ruined her character by turning her into a shallow strong woman spunky tomgirl archetype rather than a traumatized war orphan/child soldier who does terrible things.

Sorry for the offtopic. pet peeve.

Wilshire

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« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2016, 05:15:03 pm »
That're pretty on topic, TS. I think what appeals to 'the masses' or what produces think will be appealing, is often watered down and archetypal, something that 'everyone' can easily understand and relate to.

I imagine the Serwe character will end up functionally similar to that. She'll be all openly defiant and quick witted, etc, probably even spunky tomgirl. Likely far close to Mimara than Serwe. Not saying that's a good or bad thing, I just think that'll be what happens.

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Yellow

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« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2016, 05:52:41 pm »
I just can't see any of these books making it to the screen. Or at least not in a way that's at all satisfying.

The worst thing though would be if the TV show overtook the books, like with ASoIaF. I couldn't bear having the end of trilogy 3 be shown on screen first, in a sub-par production. Not after all these years.

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Wilshire

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« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2016, 06:01:55 pm »
Haha, well, I don't think that's int he cards quite yet.

I think the rights to PoN were sold, but not AE, let alone the unwritten, and unpublished TSTSNBN. Hell, the publication rights to that might not even be sold yet.
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