[TGO SPOILERS] Momas Almighty

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Hogman

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« on: August 19, 2016, 01:09:07 pm »
There's a reference to "Momas Almighty", some kind of a deity, on page 460. Any relation to Kelmomas? Perhaps there's an ancient language in which "Momas" literally means God? Perhaps Kel Momas (or Cel Momas) has a meaning? The fact that it comes very close to the reveal that the White Luck Warrior is blind to Kelmomas made me think there was some significance to it.

Wilshire

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« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2016, 01:12:52 pm »
If there was a meaning I'd think that it is pretty well known in Earwa, especially considering Celmomas - wasn't he the 2nd?
One of the other conditions of possibility.

H

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« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2016, 01:48:50 pm »
Momas is some kind of God of the Sea.  It's a ship captain that praises Momas Almight.  Momemn is named after Momas because of it's harbor.  He is just one of the Hundred though, I'm not sure there is much more to it though.

Quote
Momas—The God of storms, seas, and chance. One of the so-called Compensatory Gods, who reward devotion in life with paradise in the afterlife, Momas is the primary deity worshipped by seamen and merchants, and is the patron divinity of Cironj (and to a lesser extent Nron). In the Higarata, he is depicted as cruel, even malicious, and obsessed with minute matters of propriety—leading some commentators to suggest he is in fact a Bellicose, as opposed to a Compensatory, God. His primary device is the White Triangle on Black (representing the Shark’s Tooth worn by all devotees of Momas).
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasűrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

The Sharmat

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« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2016, 04:56:29 pm »
Lots of bronze age Mesopotamian cultures that Bakker likes to channel had names derived from their Gods. Assurbanipal, etc. So Celmomas is probably derived in part from their god of the sea and dice. But I doubt there's any greater significance. If we could figure out what the Cel/Kel prefix means it would help.

I don't think Issiral was blind to Kelmomas. I think he was blind to Samarmas.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2016, 05:02:18 pm by The Sharmat »

Madness

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« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2016, 07:29:40 pm »
Welcome to the Second Apocalypse, Hogman :).
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geoffrobro

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« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2016, 03:32:44 am »
I really need to do more research but I'm thinking Kel changes the outcome of various things the assassin was originally predicted to do. If I remember correctly in the past books the WLW kills the empress with a blade or some way but as we find out that never happens. I think that because Kel intervened. Like when he walks into the private meeting between Esmi and the assassin, I think Esmi was going to die that night but his entrance prevented it. That's why that night he dreams of that exact death.
Again I do need to do research.
And Kel at one point refers to himself as the greatest Hold Aspect Emperor and say they death of his brother and uncle Madrid him great. Maybe the next series???? I like it
"Wutrim kut mi’puru kamuir!"

themerchant

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« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2016, 06:05:11 pm »
I've thought that Kellhus built the secret ways in much the same way the thresholds are constructed by the nonmen. Then esme shows them to little Kel, who uses them and dips out of view of the gods.

MSJ

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« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2016, 06:53:41 pm »
I've thought that Kellhus built the secret ways in much the same way the thresholds are constructed by the nonmen. Then esme shows them to little Kel, who uses them and dips out of view of the gods.

I'm in agreement to an extent, I think Ajokli could ssee Kelmommas and aide in his escapades. Just like he can see the No-God, his abilities are greater than the other 100. One caveat though Merchant, the Threshholds didn't actually work, did they?
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

The Sharmat

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« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2016, 03:04:19 am »
And we don't strictly know that Ajokli is involved at all other than possibly surrendering his Narindar to Issiral. I mean Kelmomas claims an affinity with the God, particularly in this book, but he also thinks Issiral is his agent come to aid him in assuming the mantle of Aspect Emperor. Which he accidentally proves catastrophically wrong.

MSJ

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« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2016, 02:25:04 pm »
I'd say that there is plenty of textual evidence that Kelmommas is a agent/tool of Ajokli.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

The Sharmat

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« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2016, 03:08:18 pm »
How much of that evidence comes from anywhere but Kelmomas's musings, though?

MSJ

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« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2016, 03:19:16 pm »
How much of that evidence comes from anywhere but Kelmomas's musings, though?

It's all in the TGO ARC threads. Its not his musings, the librarian explains it all and Kel doesn't even realize it's about him. Rather, he thinks it's about the Narinder.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Cynical Cat

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« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2016, 12:58:41 am »
Kelmomas quickly comes to the conclusion that its all about him, but he's a raging narcissist.  He thinks its about the Narindar, but he thinks the Narindar is working to advance him.  He's highly intelligent, but his narcissism poisons all of his thinking.   

MSJ

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« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2016, 08:43:22 am »
Kelmomas quickly comes to the conclusion that its all about him, but he's a raging narcissist.  He thinks its about the Narindar, but he thinks the Narindar is working to advance him.  He's highly intelligent, but his narcissism poisons all of his thinking.

No he comes to hold the Narinder dear to his heart, because like you say he takes out Thelli. And, that goes back to the quote about Ajokli granting Unerring Grace but in the end he will take what you hold dear.......the Narinder in Kelmommas case. Or, Esmi, wether she's dead or Kelmommas is dead to her after her seeing him gloat over Thelli's death. Sammy reminds Kel again and again about the sacrifice made to Ajokli, but yes, his narcissism makes him think he is above the tool of a god, he thinks he is a god.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

The Sharmat

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« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2016, 09:02:00 am »
I'm just gonna need more than the voice in his head tell him maiming a beetle in front of a priapic altar counts as him being the literal chosen of Ajokli.

It's not the idea itself I object to. It's the utter certainty of it.