The Prince of Nothing: TV series

  • 135 Replies
  • 16542 Views

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

H

  • *
  • The Zero-Mod
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • The Honourable H
  • Posts: 1932
  • The Original No-God Apologist
    • View Profile
    • The Original No-God Apologist
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2016, 10:15:33 pm »
I wouldn't discount it being Netflix that has purchased the rights here.  I could easily see them wanting something of their own like Game of Thrones.  I still think that animated is the only way to do the story with any real fidelity, but as this thread shows, the stigma is real.  We'll see if this even gets off the ground though, the rights are far from a show actually being made.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

Cynical Cat

  • *
  • Kijneta
  • ***
  • Posts: 221
    • View Profile
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2016, 11:58:59 pm »

I object to the idea that it would involve a smaller cast and fewer locations than GoT. Maybe then the last few books/seasons, but The Darkness That Comes Before at least starts off quite a bit more widespread than Game of Thrones. The thing is GRRM's narrative flows and balloons outward, whereas Bakker's (mostly) consolidates around a few key points after the first book. I doubt we'll see any big battles at all, honestly. That is incredibly expensive and even GoT couldn't really justify having more than one or two after it's first season. Make no mistake, Prince of Nothing is not A Song of Ice and Fire. It's significantly more impenetrable, downright offputting to most audiences, and its main claim to fame in terms of the general geek public is being part of a particularly nasty social media spat.

No, it really is smaller than the early books of GoT.  I'm not saying the Prince of Nothing is small, but GoT was deliberately written to be as wide ranging as possible and the Prince of Nothing is more focused.  Check the shear size of the character lists in the back of the books.  The TV series condenses as number of characters or omits them to try and deal with that while the Prince of Nothing really focuses down to the area around the army and meetings in rooms after the first book in contrast to the Wall, Kingstown, Team Khalesi, Team Stark, and assorted other places where Brienne and so forth.    Big battles are expensive, but the central cast is much smaller and the locations are fewer as far as shooting it is a concern.

No writing it properly is going to be a concern.  A lot of the books take place inside the minds of the characters.  I imagine making them more talkative so they share their thoughts with others will the solution.

JRControl

  • *
  • Momurai
  • **
  • Posts: 108
  • Kellhus lied, Harambe died
    • View Profile
« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2016, 01:09:04 am »
I just hope it doesn't fall into the hands of the usual American script writers. They seem to have a unique talent for mangling a good story with laziness and nonsensical action scenes.
“Because you’re a pious man born to a world unable to fathom your piety. But all that changes with me, Akka. The old food pyramids have outlived the age of their intention, and I have come to reveal the new. I am the Slimmest Path, and I say that you are not damned.”

Callan S.

  • *
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Warrior-Profit
  • Posts: 654
    • View Profile
    • Philosopher Gamer
« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2016, 02:55:06 am »
I'd think the inner thoughts part is easy - it's run like a dream sequence with a narration of the inner thoughts, with a bunch of scenes blurring in and out of each other to depict the thoughts visually (like a dream). That or you just follow the character traveling somewhere (generally through a detail rich environment but with no actual conflict) with the narration of their thoughts over the top, as if it's what they thought about just before leaving - it gives the impression of progressing the action of the story while delivering the thinking of the story.

Titan

  • *
  • Momurai
  • **
  • Posts: 87
    • View Profile
« Reply #34 on: August 29, 2016, 04:46:57 am »

I object to the idea that it would involve a smaller cast and fewer locations than GoT. Maybe then the last few books/seasons, but The Darkness That Comes Before at least starts off quite a bit more widespread than Game of Thrones. The thing is GRRM's narrative flows and balloons outward, whereas Bakker's (mostly) consolidates around a few key points after the first book. I doubt we'll see any big battles at all, honestly. That is incredibly expensive and even GoT couldn't really justify having more than one or two after it's first season. Make no mistake, Prince of Nothing is not A Song of Ice and Fire. It's significantly more impenetrable, downright offputting to most audiences, and its main claim to fame in terms of the general geek public is being part of a particularly nasty social media spat.

No, it really is smaller than the early books of GoT.  I'm not saying the Prince of Nothing is small, but GoT was deliberately written to be as wide ranging as possible and the Prince of Nothing is more focused.  Check the shear size of the character lists in the back of the books.  The TV series condenses as number of characters or omits them to try and deal with that while the Prince of Nothing really focuses down to the area around the army and meetings in rooms after the first book in contrast to the Wall, Kingstown, Team Khalesi, Team Stark, and assorted other places where Brienne and so forth.    Big battles are expensive, but the central cast is much smaller and the locations are fewer as far as shooting it is a concern.

We are talking about the *FIRST* book, where GOT is relatively compact. Why are you bringing up Brienne? GOT (book 1 and season 1) starts off with all characters in TWO locations. That's it. It gradually expands from there, but it is a slow expansion. "The Darkness that comes before" does not do that... It does the opposite. Characters travel vast distances to finally meet at the end of the book. That is a problematic structure for an adaption, no matter how you slice it.

After that things do indeed become easier, sure, but you've got to hook people early... People will tune out if they are not hooked by episode 2 or 3. GRRM wrote GOT with with a very cliffhanger heavy structure which made it easier to include some "hooks" at every episode to make sure people came back. Bakker does it as well, but not as consistently as GRRM, so there will be much more adaption work required to create a structure that has that "hook" after the pilot - and every episode after that.

It's not impossible, sure... On the positive side, PON has a trinity of truly excellent characters to hang a drama around - Achamian, Kellhus, and Cnaiür. Get the casting of those three characters right, and things could flow well from there. Fail in that casting... And you would have a disaster.

Titan

  • *
  • Momurai
  • **
  • Posts: 87
    • View Profile
« Reply #35 on: August 29, 2016, 04:55:28 am »
Anime, animation, if there is a difference well excuse my ignorance. Here I put it like this, I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH A FUCKING CARTOON OF MY FAVORITE SERIES!!!!!!!!!!

I agree. I don't care if you call it Anime or animation, why would you be hoping for that?
(and frankly it is no insult to call it anime since at least anime has a longer history of stories with adult themes)

I want to see an epic live action adaption... Fail or succeed, I want them to aim very high. (Lynch's "Dune" is a failure, but it is a massively impressive and interesting failure) Going for an animated format is the opposite of aiming high.

Given the long scope of the story, I think three 10-episode seasons on something like HBO (or even Netflix) would be perfect to cover the PON trilogy. A movie adaption would required too much change to the story, unless they are very smart about what they cut.

The Sharmat

  • *
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Horde General
  • Posts: 779
    • View Profile
« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2016, 08:50:21 am »
Anime, animation, if there is a difference well excuse my ignorance. Here I put it like this, I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH A FUCKING CARTOON OF MY FAVORITE SERIES!!!!!!!!!!
It'll probably be pretty cartoonish regardless t be honest, animation or no.

This is a great story with complex characters, mystery, great plot and lots of action and intrigue. If done right, it could be brought to life and be a top notch series. I don't even begin to understand how you think it would be cartoonish. Haters gonna hate.

If done right is the key phrase there. This will be very easy to mess up.

Animation is better suited to bombastic fantasy for anything that doesn't have a LOTR level budget. I don't care for the stylistic choices and themes anime usually goes for but western animation has been stuck in a ghetto of kiddy fare and Pixar movies for ages. Would be nice for there to be something good to balance that out. I mean you can hope for whatever you want I guess but you might went to temper those expectations. The series may not be made at all and if it does, it'd hardly be surprising for it to be a failure. Most series fail. And usually not in an impressive for interesting way.

I don't see why animation can't be aiming high anyway. You can do some beautiful stuff there, if you care to.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 08:55:09 am by The Sharmat »

MSJ

  • *
  • The Afflicted Few
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Yatwer's Baby Daddy
  • Posts: 1704
  • "You killed the wolf"
    • View Profile
« Reply #37 on: August 29, 2016, 09:02:22 am »
Anime, animation, if there is a difference well excuse my ignorance. Here I put it like this, I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH A FUCKING CARTOON OF MY FAVORITE SERIES!!!!!!!!!!
It'll probably be pretty cartoonish regardless t be honest, animation or no.

This is a great story with complex characters, mystery, great plot and lots of action and intrigue. If done right, it could be brought to life and be a top notch series. I don't even begin to understand how you think it would be cartoonish. Haters gonna hate.

If done right is the key phrase there. This will be very easy to mess up.

Animation is better suited to bombastic fantasy for anything that doesn't have a LOTR level budget. I don't care for the stylistic choices and themes anime usually goes for but western animation has been stuck in a ghetto of kiddy fare and Pixar movies for ages. Would be nice for there to be something good to balance that out. I mean you can hope for whatever you want I guess but you might went to temper those expectations. The series may not be made at all and if it does, it'd hardly be surprising for it to be a failure. Most series fail. And usually not in an impressive for interesting way.

I don't see why animation can't be aiming high anyway. You can do some beautiful stuff there, if you care to.

Oh, my hopes are not high that it will even get made. But, I certainly don't want it to be a cartoon. Come on, that's the expectation for this story? Why don't we just have Pickachu make an appearance?
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Callan S.

  • *
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Warrior-Profit
  • Posts: 654
    • View Profile
    • Philosopher Gamer
« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2016, 09:50:04 am »
"WHO WOULD MURDER ME!?" - Pikachu

"The red on my cheeks, growing with each a kiss of the tatooists needle daubed in red ink, for every one of your kinsman I have slain!" - Pikachu

"War is intellect - and men are stupid" - Gary Oak

"YOU MUST TELL ME, DID I CATCH THEM ALL!?" - The no god

“One cannot raise pokeballs against what has been forgotten.”
« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 09:52:00 am by Callan S. »

The Sharmat

  • *
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Horde General
  • Posts: 779
    • View Profile
« Reply #39 on: August 29, 2016, 10:21:30 am »
Oh, my hopes are not high that it will even get made. But, I certainly don't want it to be a cartoon. Come on, that's the expectation for this story? Why don't we just have Pickachu make an appearance?
Cartoons only have to be for children as long as people expect cartoons to be for children. There are counter examples. Despite being based on a comic book, HBO's animated Spawn was not only great, it's something most children should probably never be allowed to watch.

I would totally watch Callan's version though.

The Sharmat

  • *
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Horde General
  • Posts: 779
    • View Profile
« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2016, 10:24:09 am »
I think I see, Father...

Yes...the Master Ball
-Ashnurimbor Ketchum

MSJ

  • *
  • The Afflicted Few
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Yatwer's Baby Daddy
  • Posts: 1704
  • "You killed the wolf"
    • View Profile
« Reply #41 on: August 29, 2016, 10:59:34 am »
Oh, my hopes are not high that it will even get made. But, I certainly don't want it to be a cartoon. Come on, that's the expectation for this story? Why don't we just have Pickachu make an appearance?
Cartoons only have to be for children as long as people expect cartoons to be for children. There are counter examples. Despite being based on a comic book, HBO's animated Spawn was not only great, it's something most children should probably never be allowed to watch.

I would totally watch Callan's version though.

True. I have watched many cartoons or what have you and enjoyed a lot of them. The anime ninja/Pikachu junk, uhhhh, not my cup of tea. I'm not saying they are all childish and cannot be enjoyable. I think it would do nothing to bring TSA to the mainstream. TSA is a niche in the fantasy genre with what amounts to a cult following, anime is a niche medium. I think it would be a total bomb. In fact, as much as I love these books, if animation is the route taking, I would not be excited at all and could care less to watch it. Its just my opinion and taste. I think it an injustice to the story. Do you know how many adults I know that watch adult anime? None. If the goal is to make TSA available to a wide audience and bring the story to life, that's the worst route possible.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

The Sharmat

  • *
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Horde General
  • Posts: 779
    • View Profile
« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2016, 11:21:39 am »
TSA will never be mainstream without losing everything that makes it good in the first place.

And I was never talking about anime.

Wilshire

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Enshoiya
  • Posts: 4881
  • Do you remember the words?!
    • View Profile
« Reply #43 on: August 29, 2016, 01:18:37 pm »
Careful what you wish for, MSJ. I'm with Sharmat, mainstream TSA TV show might not be something us bookreaders would appreciate.

I could be wrong though. I dont read GOT or watch the show, and thats probably the best metric there is for fantasy to TV adaption. From what I gather, fans of the books are fairly satisfied, so maybe there's hope.



Netflix is a good guess H. They are doing all kinds of stuff, and they have had some great original shows recently, I guess I could trust them to do a decent TSA.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

The Sharmat

  • *
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Horde General
  • Posts: 779
    • View Profile
« Reply #44 on: August 29, 2016, 02:25:34 pm »
Fans of the book are satisfied with GoT? I remember tons of complaints from when I watched it, and I stopped watching it in season 5. I can only assume it's gotten worse.

Basically I'm saying I think this will be a financial failure regardless. If it is meant to be one, I'd rather it's one season be in a form I'd enjoy, and not just a budget ripoff of GoT.