[Titan]

Fans of the book are satisfied with GoT? I remember tons of complaints from when I watched it, and I stopped watching it in season 5. I can only assume it's gotten worse.

And I remember (and still see) tons of praise - see how wonderfully subjective things can be?  It is one of the most popular shows on TV in recent history (ratings increase every year), and also one of the most faithful fantasy adaptations in the medium's history. A few vocal critics on Westeros.org and elsewhere doesn't change that. I'm certainly pleased with it overall, but then again I don't hold the source material as flawless.

With GOT ending in two years, it could provide a window of opportunity for another fantasy epic on television, and PON certainly qualifies as that.

[Wilshire]

Fans of the book are satisfied with GoT? I remember tons of complaints from when I watched it, and I stopped watching it in season 5. I can only assume it's gotten worse.

I assumed they were.

If not, then more to my point - TV/Film adaptations are NOT for the book fans. Lets be honest, we're a niche market to begin with, I assume the major driver for these types of adaptations are financial, if not the author then at least by the studio producing it. And I'm not saying that as an insult in any way, just as a fact.

Basically I'm saying I think this will be a financial failure regardless. If it is meant to be one, I'd rather it's one season be in a form I'd enjoy, and not just a budget ripoff of GoT.

Well, it would be a non-start if whoever bought the rights thought it would be a failure. I think its safe to assume that the studio that bought it wants to make as much money as possible. This makes it almost certain that they will be doing live action.

I'd still like to see a TSA animated series though - anime or otherwise, I enjoy both.

Fans of the book are satisfied with GoT? I remember tons of complaints from when I watched it, and I stopped watching it in season 5. I can only assume it's gotten worse.

And I remember (and still see) tons of praise - see how wonderfully subjective things can be?  It is one of the most popular shows on TV in recent history (ratings increase every year), and also one of the most faithful fantasy adaptations in the medium's history. A few vocal critics on Westeros.org and elsewhere doesn't change that. I'm certainly pleased with it overall, but then again I don't hold the source material as flawless.

With GOT ending in two years, it could provide a window of opportunity for another fantasy epic on television, and PON certainly qualifies as that.

This is what I thought. Largely widespread praise. In this case, there's some hope for the book fans to be satisfied with a TSA TV series, but I still stand by what I said above - its not for the book fans. Its going to be, and imo should be, a TV show for people watching TV. Now, certainly, I hope it remains as true as possible to the series. Creative decision will need to be made in order to produce something that is palatable for the TV audience.


Anyways, I hope that its a great financial success, and I honestly wouldn't be terribly disappointed if I didn't like the TV show, because a successful TV series should translate into more books from Bakker.


----------------------------
I think this thread took an odd turn. To try and change the topic to something more constructive:

What would you do to adapt TSA into a TV series? How far would season 1 go? How many seasons total?

What would you take out of TDTCB to make it more filmable, or more palatable to the audience - to keep them hooked from the start?

[The Sharmat]

The vast majority of people watching Game of Thrones have not read the books.

[Titan]

The vast majority of people watching Game of Thrones have not read the books.

Certainly. But a significant minority are readers who continue to watch. (many who became readers after the show started, judging by how book sale figures rose after the show started) Whatever our own anecdotal evidence suggests, ratings and book sales  indicate that people in general are *not* tuning out of the show.

[The Sharmat]

I know a number of book fans that hate-watch the show. it's a bizarre phenomenon I've only seen afflict nerds. They'll watch things like GoTs or the later seasons of Battlestar Galactica just to complain about the new ways in which it's worse than it used to be.

[Bolivar]

I don't have the book reader demographic numbers, if they even exist, but I will chime in with The Sharmat that GoT has definitely alienated a lot of us. I myself "hate-watched" up through Season 3 because my roommates and friends were into it but I haven't kept up with it since. It's even damaged the reputation of the IP for me a bit as I'm not anticipating ADwD as much as I otherwise would.

There are inherent challenges to adapting the imaginative power of fantasy novels into the limitations of live action television and this is why I'm with Wilshire that the show won't ultimately be for us. The books will always have the most allure for fantasy fans, this is more about reaching a bigger audience, Bakker getting his due and hopefully financing more of his writing. I'll definitely watch and hope for the best but at the same time, be prepared for the worst.

[JRControl]

I too am hate-watching GOT because I don't think I'll read the rest of the books if/when they come out and I want some closure.

[MSJ]

@Wilshire, you're right I should be careful for what I wish for. I know any adaption will stray somewhat from the books. But, if the could do as good as a job as GoT has done, then I would be 100% satisfied. Arc's will change, things will be left out, as long as the essence remains I would be happy. Sorry, I know many of you guys like anime and the like and I've bee a bit down putting of it......sorry. It's not my thing, and as a niche itself wouldn't help Bakker the way a live TV series would. But, whatever we get, if we do get it, I can't set here and say I wouldn't watch it. Deep down, I know I would.

[The Sharmat]

I maintain that Lord of the Rings is by far the best book to live action fantasy adaptation, not Game of Thrones.

[Cynical Cat]

I maintain that Lord of the Rings is by far the best book to live action fantasy adaptation, not Game of Thrones.

Well it isn't weighed down by a crappy Dorne arc . . . .  Seriously GoT is seriously wounded by the quality drop after the third book and the passing around of the idiot ball by otherwise intelligent characters.  The TV series is also hurt by the fact they're outrunning their source material and their writers aren't as good as Martin (as demonstrated by their even worse Dorne arc).  Jackson's adaptation of the Lord of the Rings was pretty damn good.  There's things i didn't like, by my nitpicking powers are superhuman.

[The Sharmat]

The TV series added irrelevant stuff more than it removed it. The Dorne arc in the books was far less crappy than the show one from what I saw. It's pretty bewildering since the TV show can afford even less padding than a book series.

Back to PoN: As a compromise on the animation issue, how would folks feel about CG? Think Beowulf.

[Titan]

I maintain that Lord of the Rings is by far the best book to live action fantasy adaptation, not Game of Thrones.

Well it isn't weighed down by a crappy Dorne arc . . . .  Seriously GoT is seriously wounded by the quality drop after the third book and the passing around of the idiot ball by otherwise intelligent characters.  The TV series is also hurt by the fact they're outrunning their source material and their writers aren't as good as Martin (as demonstrated by their even worse Dorne arc).  Jackson's adaptation of the Lord of the Rings was pretty damn good.  There's things i didn't like, by my nitpicking powers are superhuman.

Oh ye younglings, I guess you weren't on the internet back in 2001-2003, because there was a LOT of very upset tolkien fans.  Tom Bombadil, Arwen, elves at Helms Deep, the ruining of Saruman, and the %#%*-up of the ROTK end battle at the gate ... I don't agree with those complaints, but I'm just scratching the surface of fan outrage.

So why don't we get past the "my anecdotal evidence of GOT love/hate is better that your anecdotal evidence", and concentrate on a PON adaption. 

Back to PoN: As a compromise on the animation issue, how would folks feel about CG? Think Beowulf.

Not much better than animated, really. The biggest issue with an 2D or 3D animated version of PON would be the characters. So many strong characters and their interactions (far more of that than action), and how do you portray for example Kellhus reading faces? In live action you at least have the benefit of skilled actors doing "acting", but in CG or 2D animation, that not really an avenue you can use.

[The Sharmat]

Arwen and Saruman I felt were valid complaints but fairly minor in the great scheme, and quite minor compared to some GoT changes.

Animated actors can be fantastic if you put the time in. Don't underestimate the skills of animators and voice actors.

[Cynical Cat]

Yes, the Dorne arc in the show was worse.  Just because you recognize something as being problematic doesn't mean what you write to replace it will be better.  The show definitely has padding, because they were catching up to the books real fast and the languid pace of certain parts of book four and five weren't going to be good when translated to TV.

I don't have any hate for animation.  It could be done well, but giving the trends in how western tv does entertainment, I don't see it happening.

[MSJ]

I don't have any hate for animation.  It could be done well, but giving the trends in how western tv does entertainment, I don't see it happening.

I'm sorry as if I sounded like I have this hate for animation, I don't. I have three young kids and I can name off dozen of animated movies I've watched with them and absolutely love. But, if PoN is gonna be animated it's gonna be like that Japanese anime stuff, it's not gonna be Disney quality. Yea, I get the pros, special effects won't be needed and all that. But, the cons far out weigh the pros. Its a niche audience and won't be marketed mainstream. A gritty philosophical mystery that's turned into a cartoon would lose sooooo much of what it could be.

I think HBO has done a great job bringing ASOIAF to life. Sure, some things are different, but that's the case with almost 100% of book to film/TV translations. As long as they could keep the esence of the characters and story I would be happy. And, everyone says. The Inchoroi would have to be cut, I disagree. Other shows have been going progressively edgy over the last decade, and I think people would love the Inchies as the bad guys. I don't see any problem bringing inner dialogue to screen as I've mentioned before, and the won't be a whole lot of special effects that would drive costs through the roof. This series is made for TV and I just can't possibly see it as anime and be succesful.