Traitor of men

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Yellow

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« on: September 10, 2016, 12:31:12 pm »
Ok, hoepfully someone can clear this up for me.

Why is Cet'ingira / Mekeritrig known as... well, Mekeritrig (traitor of men / man-traitor)?

I thought it was because of his role in the Consult and FA... however, I'm currently re-reading The False Sun and I note that even here, Cet'ingira is reviled by Titirga and the Umeri. Something like 3/4 of the way through, we have this passage:

Quote
Six days Cet'ingira, the most-famed of the Siqu, the Most-feared-and-hated, stands upon the High Threshold, the arcane bass of his voice climbing from the pores of all that could be seen, his arms outstretched, a myriad of Mathesis Pins drawn into a circle of etc.

And it is also stated that even when Nogaral was first built, some 200 years before TFS takes place, the Sohonc hated it because they could see Cet'ingira's hand in its design.

So why was he so hated prior to the Consult even being a thing? Was it well known that he wanted to enter the Ark and awaken (or whatever) A&A? I honestly don't know / can't remember.
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Hirtius/Pansa

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« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2016, 09:33:53 pm »
There are some continuity snag around this.  In the TTT glossary it says that Mek revealed the location of Min-Uroikas to the Mangaecca in 777, but some of the things in The False Sun seem to run contrary to that. The Mangaecca only entered the Ark super recently because of Shae, so only 1115 or whenever, a few years before The False Sun.

But to the point, Cet'ingira is hated because he stole the Heron Spear from Ishterebinth ~750 Year of the Tusk. He's sorta been a rogue agent that the Mangeccas were harboring. I'm also sure that Nil'giccas wanted him brought to justice.

The one thing I absolutely hate about The False Sun is that they call Aurang, Aurang. Aurang is the epithet the Kuniuri gave him!—which is not a kingdom/language that will exist for many centuries. Surely they would call him Sin-Pharion, or the Umeri would have some other name for him.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2016, 10:14:41 pm by Hirtius/Pansa »

Callan S.

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« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2016, 09:43:23 pm »
The one thing I absolutely hate about The False Sun is that they call Aurang, Aurang. Aurang is the epithet the Kuniuri gave him!—which is not a kingdom/language that will exist for many centuries. Surely they would call him Sin-Pharion, or the Umeri would have some other name for him.

Interesting observation there!

Yellow

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« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2016, 07:21:52 am »
Excellent info, thanks H/P! I always hate finding timeline issues in books - I'm not the most obsessive person in the world, but it hurts!

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Yellow

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« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2016, 07:26:16 am »
There are some continuity snag around this.  In the TTT glossary it says that Mek revealed the location of Min-Uroikas to the Mangaecca in 777, but some of the things in The False Sun seem to run contrary to that. The Mangaecca only entered the Ark super recently because of Shae, so only 1115 or whenever, a few years before The False Sun.

But to the point, Cet'ingira is hated because he stole the Heron Spear from Ishterebinth ~750 Year of the Tusk. He's sorta been a rogue agent that the Mangeccas were harboring. I'm also sure that Nil'giccas wanted him brought to justice.

The one thing I absolutely hate about The False Sun is that they call Aurang, Aurang. Aurang is the epithet the Kuniuri gave him!—which is not a kingdom/language that will exist for many centuries. Surely they would call him Sin-Pharion, or the Umeri would have some other name for him.
Actually, one point. The snag you mention at the top is perhaps not as bad as it first seems. It is mentioned that the Mangaecca have been trying to get into the Ark for over 200 years, so the gap between 777 to 1115 is actually not so strange. Though perhaps it should be closer to 330.

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Hirtius/Pansa

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« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2016, 11:31:57 pm »
I should clarify a little.  When Achamian is giving his speech to the Great Names at the end of Warrior Prophet, he specifically says that Cet'ingira revealed the location of the Min-Uroikas to Shae. But the Glossary states that he revealed it to the Mangaecca much much earlier in 777. The Glossary also states that the Mangaecca had been excavating Min-Uroikas for centuries before Shae had reportedly found a way to undo scriptural damnation. The False Sun shows us that Min-Uroikas had not been opened before 1115ish because of Shae's know-how, but it also says something about how Cet'ingira had shown previous Grandmasters of the Mangaecca Anochirwa, so they had been apparently trying to open the Ark for some time.

I should cap this by saying that the stuff in False Sun is probably semi-canon until otherwise noted by Bakker and that the Mighty Author himself has said that the Glossary is full of unreliable narrator stuff—so who can say.

Where are you getting the 200 years?—that isn't some in my memories banks so I may have forgotten.

The Sharmat

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« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2016, 04:49:14 am »
Is it not also possible that the Mandate's knowledge of these events is every bit as imperfect as Seswatha's?

Hirtius/Pansa

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« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2016, 07:09:20 am »
Oh completely.  I'm just reciting all the contradictory info we have on the matter.

Callan S.

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« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2016, 08:28:04 am »
It's funny how Seswatha's writing style is very different - focused on action and basically no introspection into characters. Just a touch a hack.

Gorgorotterath

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« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2016, 01:17:51 pm »
The one thing I absolutely hate about The False Sun is that they call Aurang, Aurang. Aurang is the epithet the Kuniuri gave him!—which is not a kingdom/language that will exist for many centuries. Surely they would call him Sin-Pharion, or the Umeri would have some other name for him.

I agree with that. I actually pointed out the "Aurang"  inconsistency in the comments, but I did not get any reply.