In the light of added knowledge, a few thoughts

  • 83 Replies
  • 4791 Views

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Wilshire

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Enshoiya
  • Posts: 4877
  • Do you remember the words?!
    • View Profile
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2017, 02:17:59 pm »
So no remarks on the brilliance of Locke's post....i would've thought it to spur some convo to say the least. Or, you're all just awestruck at the fucking awesomeness of it. I think it's pretty close to irrefutable textual evidence that Kelmommas is the Narindar of Ajokli. I've basically presented this evidence before. Yet, what I found so brilliant, isthat what makes Kelmommas blind to Yatwer/WLW Is his following of the WLW keeps him in the blind spot of them. Excellent deciphering of the text.

I have to confess that my interest in Kelmomas is limited to awaiting his long-overdue comeuppance. But given that Ajokli is the Trickster God, it would make sense for him to take an interest in a megalomaniacal psychopath like Kelmomas. I fear the last laugh will be had by Ajokli at Kelmomas' expense.

What do you make of Kelmomas' dream of Issaril leaping and skewering his eye? A warning from Ajokli? From Yatwer?

Huh, actually I never  thought much of it other than the imagination of a paranoid child. Remember,  he is scared to death of the WLW in the beginning.
I came to the same conclusion. But we've seen time and again that the obvious explanation isn't necessarily the correct one. I wasn't really until TJE that we got hints of Inrau's inner monologue potentially being God-inspired. Lets hope TUC is enlightening.

I understand your stance though.
Just attempting to avoid being hypocritical, but I hope I don't unduly influence other's.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

BeardFisher-King

  • *
  • Kijneta
  • ***
  • Posts: 268
  • The Trackless Steppe
    • View Profile
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2017, 02:58:23 pm »
So no remarks on the brilliance of Locke's post....i would've thought it to spur some convo to say the least. Or, you're all just awestruck at the fucking awesomeness of it. I think it's pretty close to irrefutable textual evidence that Kelmommas is the Narindar of Ajokli. I've basically presented this evidence before. Yet, what I found so brilliant, isthat what makes Kelmommas blind to Yatwer/WLW Is his following of the WLW keeps him in the blind spot of them. Excellent deciphering of the text.

I have to confess that my interest in Kelmomas is limited to awaiting his long-overdue comeuppance. But given that Ajokli is the Trickster God, it would make sense for him to take an interest in a megalomaniacal psychopath like Kelmomas. I fear the last laugh will be had by Ajokli at Kelmomas' expense.

What do you make of Kelmomas' dream of Issaril leaping and skewering his eye? A warning from Ajokli? From Yatwer?

Huh, actually I never  thought much of it other than the imagination of a paranoid child. Remember,  he is scared to death of the WLW in the beginning.
I came to the same conclusion. But we've seen time and again that the obvious explanation isn't necessarily the correct one. I wasn't really until TJE that we got hints of Inrau's inner monologue potentially being God-inspired. Lets hope TUC is enlightening.

Perhaps Samarmas is responsible for that dream....good on him! Get him, Sammi!
"The heart of any other, because it has a will, would remain forever mysterious."

-from "Snow Falling On Cedars", by David Guterson

MSJ

  • *
  • The Afflicted Few
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Yatwer's Baby Daddy
  • Posts: 1701
  • "You killed the wolf"
    • View Profile
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2017, 03:13:58 pm »
So no remarks on the brilliance of Locke's post....i would've thought it to spur some convo to say the least. Or, you're all just awestruck at the fucking awesomeness of it. I think it's pretty close to irrefutable textual evidence that Kelmommas is the Narindar of Ajokli. I've basically presented this evidence before. Yet, what I found so brilliant, isthat what makes Kelmommas blind to Yatwer/WLW Is his following of the WLW keeps him in the blind spot of them. Excellent deciphering of the text.

I have to confess that my interest in Kelmomas is limited to awaiting his long-overdue comeuppance. But given that Ajokli is the Trickster God, it would make sense for him to take an interest in a megalomaniacal psychopath like Kelmomas. I fear the last laugh will be had by Ajokli at Kelmomas' expense.

What do you make of Kelmomas' dream of Issaril leaping and skewering his eye? A warning from Ajokli? From Yatwer?

Huh, actually I never  thought much of it other than the imagination of a paranoid child. Remember,  he is scared to death of the WLW in the beginning.
I came to the same conclusion. But we've seen time and again that the obvious explanation isn't necessarily the correct one. I wasn't really until TJE that we got hints of Inrau's inner monologue potentially being God-inspired. Lets hope TUC is enlightening.

Perhaps Samarmas is responsible for that dream....good on him! Get him, Sammi!

Well, it could indeed by Ajokli, if in fact, Kelmommas is his Narindar. That is what spurred Kelmommas to follow and watch the WLW, hence putting him in his wake.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

themerchant

  • *
  • The Afflicted Few
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Captain Slogger
  • Posts: 782
    • View Profile
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2017, 06:45:06 pm »
Ajokli's narindar got killed by the WLW, so maybe he killed the WLW.


MSJ

  • *
  • The Afflicted Few
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Yatwer's Baby Daddy
  • Posts: 1701
  • "You killed the wolf"
    • View Profile
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2017, 06:46:00 pm »
Ajokli's narindar got killed by the WLW, so maybe he killed the WLW.

Revenge? I like that Merch, I like it alot.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

MSJ

  • *
  • The Afflicted Few
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Yatwer's Baby Daddy
  • Posts: 1701
  • "You killed the wolf"
    • View Profile
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2017, 06:49:51 pm »
I came to the same conclusion. But we've seen time and again that the obvious explanation isn't necessarily the correct one. I wasn't really until TJE that we got hints of Inrau's inner monologue potentially being God-inspired. Lets hope TUC is enlightening.

Remind me. What in the TJE gave us hints that Inrau's inner monologue was potentially God-inspired?
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Wilshire

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Enshoiya
  • Posts: 4877
  • Do you remember the words?!
    • View Profile
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2017, 08:50:30 pm »
It just wasn't until TAE that we got any kind of real validation that Gods were real and interacting both directly and indirectly with the world.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

MSJ

  • *
  • The Afflicted Few
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Yatwer's Baby Daddy
  • Posts: 1701
  • "You killed the wolf"
    • View Profile
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2017, 09:47:20 pm »
It just wasn't until TAE that we got any kind of real validation that Gods were real and interacting both directly and indirectly with the world.

Oh, I knew before that. When, Cnaüir was inhabited by Gilgoal.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

themerchant

  • *
  • The Afflicted Few
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Captain Slogger
  • Posts: 782
    • View Profile
« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2017, 02:27:46 pm »
There are several things about Kel that don't jive with the theory.

He only spies on the WLW out of something to do and in observing him gets obsessed.

The voice reminds them they have the "Strength" not the "Grace" which are two different things.

When Kel goes to esme room and isn't seen, the text explicitly states it's because of the limits of esmenet not because Kel. Something like "couldn't see him for limits all of her own". As opposed to him being invisible now.

Kel is being played by Ajokli , he thinks he's doing his own thing then at last second the robes slip off and he is anguished. He has this internal monologue about children being tricked by the same stories. What happens to him is what happens to the children he thinks of. The opposite of what he thought would happen happened.

I can't help feeling Kellhus involvement somewhere. He constructed the whole "shadow palace" and kept it secret from everyone bar esme. It's whole purpose in the books is to conceal Kel from Maithanet and then as a vehicle to follow the WLW around. This is all tied up in his "love" for his mother. Which is actually a rationalization of something hidden from him according to inrilaitas(sp?). Which might be some sort of compulsion set upon him by Kellhus.  He saves his father despite hating him. Also seems to have information from Kellhus about keeping a secret, or he made it up to freak out the guard he was going to kill and eat.

Maybe Kellhus and Ajokli in cahoots.


BeardFisher-King

  • *
  • Kijneta
  • ***
  • Posts: 268
  • The Trackless Steppe
    • View Profile
« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2017, 12:39:32 pm »
Cuttlefish, where does Koringhus equate the JE with the Absolute?

ETA: when I'm wrong, I have no problem saying as much. So I went reading through the Koringhus chapters where he apprehended the JE and came across this.


Quote
This, Sister … This is why I bare my throat to the blade of your judgment. This is why I would make myself your slave. For short of death, you, Anasûrimbor Mimara, wife-daughter of Anasûrimbor Kellhus, who is also my father … you, Sister, are the Shortest Path. The Absolute dwells within your Gaze. You … a frail, worldborn slip, heavy with child, chased across the throw of kings and nations, you are the Nail of the World, the hook from which all things hang. Thus do I kneel before it, awaiting, accepting, death or illumination—it does not matter which … So long as I am at last known.

MSJ, in my opinion, that declaration from Koringhus is going to turn out to be a critical statement on Earwan reality.
"The heart of any other, because it has a will, would remain forever mysterious."

-from "Snow Falling On Cedars", by David Guterson

MSJ

  • *
  • The Afflicted Few
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Yatwer's Baby Daddy
  • Posts: 1701
  • "You killed the wolf"
    • View Profile
« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2017, 11:17:08 pm »
MSJ, in my opinion, that declaration from Koringhus is going to turn out to be a critical statement on Earwan reality.

Yes, it seems HIGHLY likely. Bakker kept saying to all the feminists he fought with ages ago, to just watch and see, he wasn't finished.

I can see two different things happening. She has the ability to save souls. Which while it does seem that's what happened with Koringhus, it's not 100% positive. Or, that a là H's theory that she will answer the No-God's questions, and that will be it's undoing. Either way, I think everything turns on the heels of Mimara. And, man, wouldnt that put a rod up the asses of all those who persucuted our Holy RSB?
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 11:19:10 pm by MSJ »
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Wilshire

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Enshoiya
  • Posts: 4877
  • Do you remember the words?!
    • View Profile
« Reply #41 on: April 06, 2017, 01:36:09 pm »
Cuttlefish, where does Koringhus equate the JE with the Absolute?

ETA: when I'm wrong, I have no problem saying as much. So I went reading through the Koringhus chapters where he apprehended the JE and came across this.


Quote
This, Sister … This is why I bare my throat to the blade of your judgment. This is why I would make myself your slave. For short of death, you, Anasûrimbor Mimara, wife-daughter of Anasûrimbor Kellhus, who is also my father … you, Sister, are the Shortest Path. The Absolute dwells within your Gaze. You … a frail, worldborn slip, heavy with child, chased across the throw of kings and nations, you are the Nail of the World, the hook from which all things hang. Thus do I kneel before it, awaiting, accepting, death or illumination—it does not matter which … So long as I am at last known.

MSJ, in my opinion, that declaration from Koringhus is going to turn out to be a critical statement on Earwan reality.

100% agree with this.



... And, man, wouldn't that put a rod up the asses of all those who persecuted our Holy RSB?

It really wouldn't though, and that's the problem. Most complaints of that nature are rooted in specific instances, not overarching plot development and storytelling. Anyone can still point to any one book, or one scene, and say "yeah but look, this is offensive to me". It doesn't matter what the offense even is, what group or sensibility is offended. Actual evidence to the contrary is irrelevant.

Bakker recently had a great exchange with someone on his blog. What it boiled down to was that the point of TSA is to offend, but not for the sake of offence alone. His hope is that the people who are offended will self reflect, and realize that they are so offended because the books are reflecting some piece of themselves that they don't like. The point is that all in-group mindsets are necessarily harmful:

Exchange of Hanalulu and Bakker - Sorry couldn't figure out how ot link the comment directly
Quote
The point of my books is to demonstrate how delusion drives the atrocities we commit. The point of my books is to convince people to step out of all our ancient mindsets, to see all instances of US versus THEM as the suicidal tendencies they in fact are

The biggest problem with that is most people won't or can't self reflect, so instead of getting to the end goal, which would be solidarity and breaking down walls, the cycle continues.

« Last Edit: April 06, 2017, 01:54:21 pm by Wilshire »
One of the other conditions of possibility.

MSJ

  • *
  • The Afflicted Few
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Yatwer's Baby Daddy
  • Posts: 1701
  • "You killed the wolf"
    • View Profile
« Reply #42 on: April 06, 2017, 02:13:13 pm »
Yes, I read that. And, like you posted, It was one I could actually understand. And, I found it it enlightening, both the post and people's reaction to the post.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Cuttlefish

  • *
  • Suthenti
  • *
  • Posts: 73
    • View Profile
« Reply #43 on: April 06, 2017, 02:27:25 pm »
Did I mention that I don't care for Mimara, at all?

Wilshire

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Enshoiya
  • Posts: 4877
  • Do you remember the words?!
    • View Profile
« Reply #44 on: April 06, 2017, 02:53:03 pm »
Did I mention that I don't care for Mimara, at all?
Why's that? Is she your least favorite character?
One of the other conditions of possibility.