Author Topic: Nonmen Mansion Ventilation  (Read 334 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

NinthAcolyte

  • Emwama
  • Posts: 9
  • Turn me on, dead man.
    • View Profile
Nonmen Mansion Ventilation
« on: April 20, 2017, 06:57:28 pm »
So here's a logistical question - How did Nonmen ventilate their Mansions? Providing a supply of breathable air is one of the major challenges when designing a bunker. How did an entire city's worth of masters and slaves avoid suffocating? The absence of light in the depths indicates the absence of shafts, and even if there were ducts carved in - you need a way of agitating the air, making it circulate. Modern complexes like Cheyenne Mountain have ludicrously power-hungry air conditioning systems to move stale air out and bring fresh air in. It's actually one of the major vulnerabilities of such fortress-bunkers. No matter how huge it is inside, eventually all that air will get used up and replaced woth carbon dioxide unless it's circulated through the outside.

This is a doubly important problem for Cil-Aujas (and any other Mansion carved into a volcano) because volcanos are full of ridiculously toxic gasses.
Talk not to me of blasphemy, man; I'd strike the sun if it insulted me.

Beardfisher King

  • Kijneta
  • ***
  • Posts: 174
  • The Trackless Steppe
    • View Profile
Re: Nonmen Mansion Ventilation
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2017, 07:01:23 pm »
Damn, that's a good question!
"So there I was, higher than the Nail of Heaven on bogus Qirri and bombed off my ass on anpoi. I'm hallucinating the fucking No-God. End of the fucking world, right? So I'm thinking, 'Where the fuck is that fucker Kellhus?' Right? 'Cause he'd know exactly what to do.....what a scary sonofabitch."

NinthAcolyte

  • Emwama
  • Posts: 9
  • Turn me on, dead man.
    • View Profile
Re: Nonmen Mansion Ventilation
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2017, 07:10:57 pm »
Thank you, I thought so too. I considered that it might have something to do with the Great Medial Screw, but even considering wind moving through that, you would have half a mountain's worth of rock between you and the gates. Awfully tricky to get air to move that far, through irregular systems of rooms and tunnels. Not impossible, just tricky, and doubly so without electricity.
Talk not to me of blasphemy, man; I'd strike the sun if it insulted me.

H

  • The Honourable H
  • The Afflicted Few
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Posts: 1377
  • The Original No-God Apologist
    • View Profile
    • The Original No-God Apologist
Re: Nonmen Mansion Ventilation
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2017, 07:29:41 pm »
Magic, obviously.

But seriously, I doubt there is a very practical way, besides them having carved out many vent holes along the perimeter.  The Medial Screw, for example, would probably be sufficient ventilation for the higher pressure generated by all the breathing, but you need somewhere for it to equalize from.

Then again, I recall having read that if Westeros has a higher air density, it is actually plausible that dragons could fly there.  So, perhaps the same is true of Eärwa...
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

Wilshire

  • Enshoiya
  • Global Moderator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Posts: 4143
  • Do you remember the words?!
    • View Profile
Re: Nonmen Mansion Ventilation
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2017, 07:32:06 pm »
Well, if you haven't read TGO, do that.

There are mention if light shafts and such there.

The screw in Cil Aujas would help tremendously .

And thirdly, magic. The nonmen infused magic into everything, both for form and function. I'd guess that they would have had a sophisticated network of mechanical, magical, and mechano-magical means of such things.

Also, if they hollowed out enough of the mountain, they'd largely be just in a reallly big house, right?

Those are the justifications I can come up with :) 
One of the other conditions of possibility.

NinthAcolyte

  • Emwama
  • Posts: 9
  • Turn me on, dead man.
    • View Profile
Re: Nonmen Mansion Ventilation
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2017, 07:43:23 pm »
Haven't got to TGO yet. Finished Judging Eye last night, starting WLW when I get home tonight.

"Really big house" isn't by itself an adequate explanation - if your house was literally the size of a mountain, you would need to ventilate the interior. Ordinary big houses can get very stuffy in the inner rooms, and we're talking orders of magnitude bigger - and made of rock, not porous materials.

"Magic" is certainly the convenient short answer especially if, as you seem to imply, they used techno-magical apparatus extensively. I haven't seen that yet so I will have to keep reading to evaluate the hypothesis. The Magic in Bakker's books appears to be very well grounded though, with firmly established rules, not the kind of thing you simply use to hand wave something.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 07:59:55 pm by NinthAcolyte »
Talk not to me of blasphemy, man; I'd strike the sun if it insulted me.

H

  • The Honourable H
  • The Afflicted Few
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Posts: 1377
  • The Original No-God Apologist
    • View Profile
    • The Original No-God Apologist
Re: Nonmen Mansion Ventilation
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2017, 07:58:58 pm »
Haven't got to TGO yet. Finished Judging Eye last night, starting WLW when I get home tonight.

"Really big house" isn't by itself an adequate explanation - if your house was literally the size of a mountain, you would need to ventilate the interior. Ordinary big houses can get very stuffy in the inner rooms, and we're talking orders of magnitude bigger - and made of rock, not porous materials.

"Magic" is certainly the convenient short answer especially if, as you seem to imply, they used techno-magical apparatus extensively. I haven't seen that yet so I will have to keep reading to evaluate the hypothesis. The Magic in Bakker's books appears to be very firmly grounded though, with firmly established rules, not the kind of thing you simply use to hand wave something.

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away (i.e. the ancient Three Seas Board), I asked Bakker about the practicality of supplying all of the Fanim's horses in the desert.  Water would be a huge issue, let alone the fodder necessary.  He pointed me to a fantastic little book called Alexander the Great and the Logistics of the Macedonian Army, but ultimately he said he takes a "mana from heaven" approach.  I think a bit of the same would be applicable here too.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

NinthAcolyte

  • Emwama
  • Posts: 9
  • Turn me on, dead man.
    • View Profile
Re: Nonmen Mansion Ventilation
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2017, 08:02:34 pm »
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away (i.e. the ancient Three Seas Board), I asked Bakker about the practicality of supplying all of the Fanim's horses in the desert.  Water would be a huge issue, let alone the fodder necessary.  He pointed me to a fantastic little book called Alexander the Great and the Logistics of the Macedonian Army, but ultimately he said he takes a "mana from heaven" approach.  I think a bit of the same would be applicable here too.

That's probably the correct answer - "they can breathe fine because huge mountain cities are badass!" Nothing wrong with a few judicious applications of the Rule of Cool. Still fun to hypothesize, though!
Talk not to me of blasphemy, man; I'd strike the sun if it insulted me.

Beardfisher King

  • Kijneta
  • ***
  • Posts: 174
  • The Trackless Steppe
    • View Profile
Re: Nonmen Mansion Ventilation
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2017, 09:09:44 pm »
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away (i.e. the ancient Three Seas Board), I asked Bakker about the practicality of supplying all of the Fanim's horses in the desert.  Water would be a huge issue, let alone the fodder necessary.  He pointed me to a fantastic little book called Alexander the Great and the Logistics of the Macedonian Army, but ultimately he said he takes a "mana from heaven" approach.  I think a bit of the same would be applicable here too.

That's probably the correct answer - "they can breathe fine because huge mountain cities are badass!" Nothing wrong with a few judicious applications of the Rule of Cool. Still fun to hypothesize, though!
Since you just finished TJE, you may remember the early chapter which describes the logistical difficulties of even creating the Great Ordeal. IIRC, Kellhus needed ten years to build enough granaries, etc. for the Great Ordeal to even get started.  And Sakarpus is a critical launch point, which adds to Sorweel's importance. It's a great section.
"So there I was, higher than the Nail of Heaven on bogus Qirri and bombed off my ass on anpoi. I'm hallucinating the fucking No-God. End of the fucking world, right? So I'm thinking, 'Where the fuck is that fucker Kellhus?' Right? 'Cause he'd know exactly what to do.....what a scary sonofabitch."

Wilshire

  • Enshoiya
  • Global Moderator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Posts: 4143
  • Do you remember the words?!
    • View Profile
Re: Nonmen Mansion Ventilation
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2017, 11:04:58 pm »
There are some instances of mechanomagical entaglements in WLW. Can't remember if you see much elsewhere.

Wracu may or may not be another example that you have seen. The descriptions are always very... Artificial? Whenever the descriptions come up they seem very much wrought from steel and mechanism rather than pure biology. 
One of the other conditions of possibility.

MrGanondorf

  • Nurse Leweth
  • The Mouth of Bakker Fans
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Posts: 1967
  • PSUKHE ALL THE THINGS!
    • View Profile
    • R. Scott Bakker Fans (on Twitter)
Re: Nonmen Mansion Ventilation
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2017, 01:19:29 am »
There are some instances of mechanomagical entaglements in WLW. Can't remember if you see much elsewhere.

Wracu may or may not be another example that you have seen. The descriptions are always very... Artificial? Whenever the descriptions come up they seem very much wrought from steel and mechanism rather than pure biology.

That dragon in the Dragons of Babel was like that.  Neato too.

MrGanondorf

  • Nurse Leweth
  • The Mouth of Bakker Fans
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Posts: 1967
  • PSUKHE ALL THE THINGS!
    • View Profile
    • R. Scott Bakker Fans (on Twitter)
Re: Nonmen Mansion Ventilation
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2017, 01:23:13 am »
Haven't got to TGO yet. Finished Judging Eye last night, starting WLW when I get home tonight.

"Really big house" isn't by itself an adequate explanation - if your house was literally the size of a mountain, you would need to ventilate the interior. Ordinary big houses can get very stuffy in the inner rooms, and we're talking orders of magnitude bigger - and made of rock, not porous materials.

"Magic" is certainly the convenient short answer especially if, as you seem to imply, they used techno-magical apparatus extensively. I haven't seen that yet so I will have to keep reading to evaluate the hypothesis. The Magic in Bakker's books appears to be very well grounded though, with firmly established rules, not the kind of thing you simply use to hand wave something.

Bakker might be of a mind to just pass the buck--he does so much fulfilling and breaking Tolkien's mold that his main reason that nonmen live in mansions is because elves lived in underground homes in the silmarillion--the nonmen have whatever ventilation the elves had

MrGanondorf

  • Nurse Leweth
  • The Mouth of Bakker Fans
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Posts: 1967
  • PSUKHE ALL THE THINGS!
    • View Profile
    • R. Scott Bakker Fans (on Twitter)
Re: Nonmen Mansion Ventilation
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2017, 01:25:28 am »
Haven't got to TGO yet. Finished Judging Eye last night, starting WLW when I get home tonight.

"Really big house" isn't by itself an adequate explanation - if your house was literally the size of a mountain, you would need to ventilate the interior. Ordinary big houses can get very stuffy in the inner rooms, and we're talking orders of magnitude bigger - and made of rock, not porous materials.

"Magic" is certainly the convenient short answer especially if, as you seem to imply, they used techno-magical apparatus extensively. I haven't seen that yet so I will have to keep reading to evaluate the hypothesis. The Magic in Bakker's books appears to be very well grounded though, with firmly established rules, not the kind of thing you simply use to hand wave something.

WELCOME NinthAcolyte!!!

YOU'VE GOT SOME AWESOME STORY AHEAD OF YOU!  NO LONG WAIT FOR TUC AFTER TGO, NICE!

NinthAcolyte

  • Emwama
  • Posts: 9
  • Turn me on, dead man.
    • View Profile
Re: Nonmen Mansion Ventilation
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2017, 05:26:52 am »
WELCOME NinthAcolyte!!!

YOU'VE GOT SOME AWESOME STORY AHEAD OF YOU!  NO LONG WAIT FOR TUC AFTER TGO, NICE!

Cheers!
Talk not to me of blasphemy, man; I'd strike the sun if it insulted me.

TaoHorror

  • Momurai
  • **
  • Posts: 89
    • View Profile
Re: Nonmen Mansion Ventilation
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2017, 11:36:27 pm »
The trick, NinthAcolyte, is not minding the details ...
The darkness that came before ... was flushed