Crazy speculation only

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profgrape

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« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2017, 07:57:12 pm »
I've been thinking about potential LOTR analogues in the upcoming climactic battle. More than any surprise reinforcements ala Rohirrim at Helm's Deep or Minas Tirith, I think it is the surprise reversal of potential reinforcements. In this capacity I refer to the Corsairs of Umbar arriving at Harlond, the Orcs believing that they have fresh allies and troops, but surprise!—it's Aragorn and co. leading the Gondorian levies from Pelargir, Lebennin and Anfalas etc. etc.

It is the reversal that excites me. I anticipate a similar event when Ishterebinth arrives at Golgotterath. The Consult will wrongly believe that the forces of the Injoy-Niyas are still allies. I imagine that Mekeritrig will see the Quya chariots on the horizon and say something like: "At last, Nin'Ciljiras has roused himself. We will finally eradicate these pesky humans." But as they get closer there will be some visual signifier that they are allied with Humanity and not the Consult. I want it to be the sigil of Nil'giccas or whatever, but as far as we know no such thing exists, so let's say it's the Copper Tree of Siol, the sigil of Cu'jara-Cinmoi, the first great enemy of the Inchoroi.  Mekeritrig's elation will slip into horror as he realizes what's actually happening: "The Exalted Stronghold stands with the Ordeal!" He will cry out.

Love this idea!!!  We know from the Overlook synopsis that Serwa and Sorweel rejoin the Ordeal at some point; maybe it's in the context of the Ish Nonmen pulling a fast one on the Consult!

Killjoy

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« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2017, 02:19:11 am »
The Consult can't actually resurrect the No-God.

The Second Apocalypse will involve the real Eschaton (aka The Apocalypse Principle), of which the original No-God was a bootleg, immanentized copy (the Consult could have made an immanent Yatwer etc. instead).

And who is the real Apocalypse Principle? Well, behold the end of the world...

Also Cnaiur = Nau-Cayuti in some sense.
IMMANENTIZED TO ESCHATON
OUTSIDE IS A FUCK
KILL ALL BUT 144,000
WHAT AM I?
99/100 DEAD GODS

Gorgorotterath

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« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2017, 10:12:05 am »
Nau Cnaiürti.
Anyway Cnaiür will unavoidably side with Proyas against the Consult, because of their kind of father-son relationship (which I had forgotten completely, until I reread the whole first trilogy this year). That's why Kellhus left Proyas behind while Saubon was a liability and was sacrificed.

BeardFisher-King

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« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2017, 12:56:13 pm »
Well, if you're looking for crazy speculation, Beardfisher King is happy to oblige!

So, the Great Ordeal finally reaches Golgotterath, right? And what do they find? Well, being Eärwan, they have no fucking idea what they're looking at. But, since the Inchoroi happen to be massively tweaked and generally fucked-up post-humans, Golgotterath happens to be the most awesome and excellent concert venue imaginable. The two horns of the Ark are rigged with mind-blowing PA speakers and the Inverse Fire is the ultimate bad-ass Jumbotron, which is showing a bewildering video promoting "No-God!", which turns out to be a cross between Slipknot, Metallica, King Crimson, Muse and Dream Theater. Just the heaviest, most intense musical experience possible. No wonder the Nonmen were weeping while watching the Inverse Fire! The Tekne rocks!

(.... to be continued)
« Last Edit: May 05, 2017, 03:41:51 pm by Beardfisher King »
"The heart of any other, because it has a will, would remain forever mysterious."

-from "Snow Falling On Cedars", by David Guterson

Walter

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« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2017, 08:08:23 pm »
Feels like we are going to get a 'Star Wars' kind of ending, with a big army battle (outside Golglutterath), while much more personal stuff goes down on the inside.

Random hunch: Kellhus is going to experience the Inverse Fire that the Consult use to initiate them with the experience of damnation.

Hirtius/Pansa

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« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2017, 08:15:54 pm »
Feels like we are going to get a 'Star Wars' kind of ending, with a big army battle (outside Golglutterath), while much more personal stuff goes down on the inside.

Random hunch: Kellhus is going to experience the Inverse Fire that the Consult use to initiate them with the experience of damnation.

That could just as easily describe the climax of TTT: the only things that actually matter are Kel confronting Moe, Cnaiur confronting Moe, Achamian and Esmenet, everything else is just action eye-candy.

Hiro

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« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2017, 05:14:04 pm »
Not so crazy, perhaps:

Achamian and Kellhus enter the Ark, echoing the dreams...echoing Frodo and Sam?
Mystery denotes darkness

Francis Buck's Crush

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« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2017, 06:31:20 pm »
Not so crazy, perhaps:

Achamian and Kellhus enter the Ark, echoing the dreams...echoing Frodo and Sam?
I really like this one. Also, Golgotterath and the Black Gate.
“The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before?”

- Chronicler of the Chroniclers

Francis Buck's Crush

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« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2017, 12:14:31 pm »
Not so crazy, perhaps:

Achamian and Kellhus enter the Ark, echoing the dreams...echoing Frodo and Sam?
Since we know that the timing of the Dreams is important, the penultimate Dream that Akka has before he leaves Kellhus is Seswatha and Nau-Cayuti entering Golgotterath...
“The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before?”

- Chronicler of the Chroniclers

Simas Polchias

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« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2017, 04:04:30 pm »
My main bet is on a dung ages-esque nods to Tolkien's LotR.

1) The Great Ordeal is an army of distraction, a device to turn someone's eyes away from a much more lesser group. Aragorn / Kellhus on the Morannon field / Black Furnace plain.
2) That lesser group carries the macguffin. Something unique and powerful, a crucial part of big bad power. One Ring / Inverse Fire. Akka & Mimara, Serwa & Sorweel / Sam & Frodo.
3) Heron spear is Narsil Anduril and would be recharged / reforged. Red herring though. Sauron / No God doesn't walk the earth, no Fingolfin-like action scenes. Weapon is mostly used to convince Eomer / remind Mekeretrig about Telcontarity / Anasurimbority of the wielder.
4) Dunno if there is a place for Theoden and Denethor after Sakarpus / Gondor. Maybe some consult generals for Gandalf / Akka to redeem or to drive to suicide?
5) Skin-spies are nazguls, keepers of the Inverse Flame / One Ring. Always near, constantly chasing, never succeeded.
6) The One Ring / Inverse Fire is lost by owner, found by stranger, carried by hero. First one is lost geographically, while second one is lost as a concept, inchoroi actually forgot a technology. So, Judging Eye, rooted Seswatha's memories, nonmen imprisoned in a helm are kinda shards, reflections and thousandfold-requoted quotes about blueprints of Inverse Fire or maybe No God. This way we'll have few Frodos and Sams, yay! Even Kellhus would be part-time Frodo, while he is "throwing" swayali and mandati against consult ranks to insure the total eradication of distributed, "p2p" Seswatha.

Ok. That's crazy enough. I'll save the 7th paragraph for the future.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 04:06:32 pm by Simas Polchias »

Madness

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« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2017, 05:35:29 pm »
I really appreciate your linking TVTropes :).
The Existential Scream
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Simas Polchias

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« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2017, 12:36:16 pm »
Thank you. It's a sneaky plot to supply fellow second-apocalypsians with a funny and useful timekiller.

Madness

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« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2017, 12:45:28 pm »
I myself have lost a great many watches down the rabbit-hole that is TVTropes. No help required ;).
The Existential Scream
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profgrape

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« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2017, 02:19:29 pm »
The book will nicely resolve the Humanity vs Consult arc.  And it will hint at how to end the damnation system.  The execution of the means to end damnation, however, will be left to TSTSNBN.

H

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« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2017, 02:23:58 pm »
The book will nicely resolve the Humanity vs Consult arc.  And it will hint at how to end the damnation system.  The execution of the means to end damnation, however, will be left to TSTSNBN.

Or we find out what the Voice is, i.e. it's actually Kellhus, and we are left to wonder how is is going to prosecute the war on the gods we know he is really after.

He just can't do it the the Consult skulking around/messing with his shit.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira