Parts of the story that really got to you ...

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TaoHorror

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« on: May 07, 2017, 01:59:05 am »
In another thread I mentioned how Bakker's description of Sorcerers using magic and descriptions of dragons jolted me. Imagining men walking into the air with light shining out of their eyes and mouths is creepy horror. What looked like clouds rumbling were scores of dragons dropping out of the skies, snatching up humans without challenge.

There's another that was even more alarming, and as I read up to it, I told myself if he kills his brother, I was going to quit reading - LOL, I know, just a book - but by god, man - it seemed so real when Kelmomas  coaxed Samarmas to the ledge - I was wide eyed, almost traumatized, reading this part. With all of the violence in the books, this one scene really tortured me and I did indeed put the book down when he fell over, just couldn't stomach more at the time. I picked it back up and continued a few days later, but I was genuinely pissed at Bakker on this one ... well, for a little while, I've forgiven him since then, hee hee ( laughing at myself here ). Another "winner" was the Bashrag nailing humans to the wall - maybe it's my evolutionary programming that genital damage is such a fright ( got to ensure I can make more humans ), but I "felt" that one. Makes me wonder if Bakker's real aim is more than to create a great work, but a sociological/psychological experiment on the power of imagination/story on consciousness - how even a work of fiction has the capacity to jar us.

Another scene ( not one that horrified, but was SO well written, I "got" the richness of the character's pathology ) was when Cniur kills Moe and exclaims, "How could you leave me?". The "hate" driving Cniur to kill Moe went beyond Moe's betrayal and manipulation to escape ... Moe didn't take Cniur with him. So cool.

And the Synthese ( exact wording may be off ), "I hate this planet". And the Synthese "seed" being black - man, how does he come up with this stuff? Its one thing to think up crazy shit - another to write it as poetry, as art.

Any others?
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TaoHorror

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« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2017, 02:01:25 am »
I'm sure by now, there's been a favorite quotes thread - but can use this one if any of you are in the mood to repeat yourselves. One gem was Cniur yelling at the denizens of the houses he was raiding, "Murder me and it stops!". Note the term, Murder and not Kill ... as if what he's doing is "right" and to stop him would be "murder" ... madness wasn't lifting just yet during that trial.
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Redeagl

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« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2017, 02:32:32 am »
The whole thing really "got to me" but if I were to only pick one, Akka's character. The best character development in fiction for me. I sympathized with Akka from the very first page he appeared in.Akka is.... So human. I can't quote right now but that part when Akka remembers when Inrau was his student, when Inrau tells him to look at the sun while it is setting..... Then when Akka saves Inrau from the Mandate.And the fact that he cared for Geshrunni, just a spy he met. Or the Anioni boy who delivered his messages... And when Esmi keeps taking custom and Akka spies on her.... And when he wanted to teach the blacksmith who beat up Esmi a lesson. And Akka's and Esmi's "marriage", it is all written so..... Beautifully. Note: I absolutely detest romance in my books but this...It truly touched me. How Akka cares about his students and spies, his relationship with Proyas and Kellhus, when he returns to Xinemus' tent and call it "Home" , and his mule, Daybreak...Everything about Akka's character got to me so... Perfectly.
Note 2: sorry, it is 4AM here and I didn't get much sleep yesterday and English isn't my first language :) so my whole reply was probably just meaningless ramble, I will try to edit tomorrow.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 02:40:33 am by Redeagl »
“The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before?”

- Chronicler of the Chroniclers

TaoHorror

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« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2017, 12:10:22 pm »
Red - great response - you remind me why I'm confused as to Akka's "damnation", should be more than just he's a sorcerer ( but maybe not ). The EYE says he's an evil man, but he appears to garner great genuine empathy ( perhaps our most heavenly human quality we can sport ). Must be something of his deeds, I suppose. To go further, the entire Mandate school are angels with their millennia quest to avoid/defeat the coming of the next Apocalypse; to dedicate your entire life to nightmares just in case sometime during your lifetime the knowledge will be useful is an incredible sacrifice.

Mind me asking what your first language is? Couldn't pick up on that, myself - your posts in English are impressive. Appears more than a few canuk's shriek in this place, maybe French?
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Redeagl

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« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2017, 12:12:07 pm »
Red - great response - you remind me why I'm confused as to Akka's "damnation", should be more than just he's a sorcerer ( but maybe not ). The EYE says he's an evil man, but he appears to garner great genuine empathy ( perhaps our most heavenly human quality we can sport ). Must be something of his deeds, I suppose. To go further, the entire Mandate school are angels with their millennia quest to avoid/defeat the coming of the next Apocalypse; to dedicate your entire life to nightmares just in case sometime during your lifetime the knowledge will be useful is an incredible sacrifice.

Mind me asking what your first language is? Couldn't pick up on that, myself - your posts in English are impressive. Appears more than a few canuk's shriek in this place, maybe French?
French is my third language, kind of :)
My first languagebis Arabic.
“The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before?”

- Chronicler of the Chroniclers

MSJ

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« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2017, 02:13:09 pm »
Red - great response - you remind me why I'm confused as to Akka's "damnation", should be more than just he's a sorcerer ( but maybe not ). The EYE says he's an evil man, but he appears to garner great genuine empathy ( perhaps our most heavenly human quality we can sport ). Must be something of his deeds, I suppose. To go further, the entire Mandate school are angels with their millennia quest to avoid/defeat the coming of the next Apocalypse; to dedicate your entire life to nightmares just in case sometime during your lifetime the knowledge will be useful is an incredible sacrifice.

Mind me asking what your first language is? Couldn't pick up on that, myself - your posts in English are impressive. Appears more than a few canuk's shriek in this place, maybe French?

Akka is damned because he is not ignorant nor innocent, as Koringhus tells us those are the most holy virtues.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

TaoHorror

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« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2017, 12:27:55 pm »
Red - great response - you remind me why I'm confused as to Akka's "damnation", should be more than just he's a sorcerer ( but maybe not ). The EYE says he's an evil man, but he appears to garner great genuine empathy ( perhaps our most heavenly human quality we can sport ). Must be something of his deeds, I suppose. To go further, the entire Mandate school are angels with their millennia quest to avoid/defeat the coming of the next Apocalypse; to dedicate your entire life to nightmares just in case sometime during your lifetime the knowledge will be useful is an incredible sacrifice.

Mind me asking what your first language is? Couldn't pick up on that, myself - your posts in English are impressive. Appears more than a few canuk's shriek in this place, maybe French?

Akka is damned because he is not ignorant nor innocent, as Koringhus tells us those are the most holy virtues.

Wow ( forgot that, thanks ) ... now that is a SLAP at religion ( ours, here on Earth ) from the books, LOL. Thank you, MSJ.
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MSJ

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« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2017, 05:03:50 pm »
Red - great response - you remind me why I'm confused as to Akka's "damnation", should be more than just he's a sorcerer ( but maybe not ). The EYE says he's an evil man, but he appears to garner great genuine empathy ( perhaps our most heavenly human quality we can sport ). Must be something of his deeds, I suppose. To go further, the entire Mandate school are angels with their millennia quest to avoid/defeat the coming of the next Apocalypse; to dedicate your entire life to nightmares just in case sometime during your lifetime the knowledge will be useful is an incredible sacrifice.

Mind me asking what your first language is? Couldn't pick up on that, myself - your posts in English are impressive. Appears more than a few canuk's shriek in this place, maybe French?

Akka is damned because he is not ignorant nor innocent, as Koringhus tells us those are the most holy virtues.

Wow ( forgot that, thanks ) ... now that is a SLAP at religion ( ours, here on Earth ) from the books, LOL. Thank you, MSJ.

Well, among other things too. Akka is damned for being a sorcerer. Murdering. We could go on all day probably. But, I was speaking to your point. In Earwa, damnation is almost inescapable. Hence, ignorance and innocence, being holy.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

TaoHorror

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« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2017, 06:06:52 pm »
Yeah, but, you would think those "damned" souls marching across the wastes that are North Earwa to save humanity from some VERY depraved/evil mother fuckers would earn some brownie points - there are degrees to evil as so beautifully/horribly illustrated in PON story. Again, more points on the rigidity of the concept of salvation being too measured/exact ( here on earth ). Not arguing, you're spot on ... just exasperated, LOL.
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MSJ

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« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2017, 06:14:40 pm »
Yeah, but, you would think those "damned" souls marching across the wastes that are North Earwa to save humanity from some VERY depraved/evil mother fuckers would earn some brownie points - there are degrees to evil as so beautifully/horribly illustrated in PON story. Again, more points on the rigidity of the concept of salvation being too measured/exact ( here on earth ). Not arguing, you're spot on ... just exasperated, LOL.

Well, Redeagl and I had a convo on this subject. How I always bring up that whatever becomes of the Ordeal will be Holy. It says so, right there in the book. Redeagl contests that. So, when Pat gave a quote from TUC and it said something along the lines of "the DAMNED SOULS of the Ordeal gazed at the golden horns.", Redeagl wrote me, "See, I told you so!"

But, they are damned now, hell 99% of Earwa is. Its what happens after the Ordeal, whatever Kellhus/Mimara does to change the way people are judged. Then those of the Ordeal will be considered Holy, for making the sacrifice.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

geoffrobro

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« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2017, 08:54:15 pm »
I remember having a "oh, fuck you Bakker" moment in TWP. When kellhus fights the 3 assassins sent by the Emperor. One of the assassins was a Zeumi sword-dancer, as a African-American my first thought was "this guy sounds like a black samurai, this is gonna be a badass fight scene, kellhus may have met a swordsmen whose skills match his own."
But no, kellhus isn't some honorable warrior and this isn't A SOLAR. Kellhus flicks dirt into the man's face and cuts his head off. I was literary speechless and slightly angry. Luckily bakker gave us Pokwas and he was awesome.
"Wutrim kut mi’puru kamuir!"

TaoHorror

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« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2017, 11:59:41 pm »
Well, G, when you put it that way, guess it was pretty lame, LOL!

I like your take on my thread here ( was meant more of what parts of the story scared/shocked/disturbed you ), but I like your point and to add we shouldn't be wide-eyed and bushy tailed all the time with the writing ( read: don't know Bakker, but I take it he wouldn't be warm to star-fucking ) - he's human and some of what he writes suffers at times and it's good to provide feedback which may help him improve. That or he was tired of writing that day and didn't have a wild-ass sword fight scene in him to spew it out for us.

Since you have a knack for it, any other weak stuff you've come across in PON? Not sure what you meant by " ... and this isn't a SOLAR" ... what's a SOLAR?
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themerchant

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« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2017, 09:42:12 pm »
I remember having a "oh, fuck you Bakker" moment in TWP. When kellhus fights the 3 assassins sent by the Emperor. One of the assassins was a Zeumi sword-dancer, as a African-American my first thought was "this guy sounds like a black samurai, this is gonna be a badass fight scene, kellhus may have met a swordsmen whose skills match his own."
But no, kellhus isn't some honorable warrior and this isn't A SOLAR. Kellhus flicks dirt into the man's face and cuts his head off. I was literary speechless and slightly angry. Luckily bakker gave us Pokwas and he was awesome.

The indiani Jones scene

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YyBtMxZgQs

geoffrobro

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« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2017, 10:18:19 pm »
Well, G, when you put it that way, guess it was pretty lame, LOL!

I like your take on my thread here ( was meant more of what parts of the story scared/shocked/disturbed you ), but I like your point and to add we shouldn't be wide-eyed and bushy tailed all the time with the writing ( read: don't know Bakker, but I take it he wouldn't be warm to star-fucking ) - he's human and some of what he writes suffers at times and it's good to provide feedback which may help him improve. That or he was tired of writing that day and didn't have a wild-ass sword fight scene in him to spew it out for us.

Since you have a knack for it, any other weak stuff you've come across in PON? Not sure what you meant by " ... and this isn't a SOLAR" ... what's a SOLAR?
I meant a "honorable warrior" i need to reread these before I post them. I'm typing from my phone and I'm usually posting when I'm at work. I did miss understand your thread  but there had been so many moments that have brought tears to my eyes, giving me the feeling of dread, joy and awe.
Sorweel...my heart goes out to that boy. (I picture Sorweels to look like the kid with the funny eyebrows. Google that exactly thing)
I remember having a "oh, fuck you Bakker" moment in TWP. When kellhus fights the 3 assassins sent by the Emperor. One of the assassins was a Zeumi sword-dancer, as a African-American my first thought was "this guy sounds like a black samurai, this is gonna be a badass fight scene, kellhus may have met a swordsmen whose skills match his own."
But no, kellhus isn't some honorable warrior and this isn't A SOLAR. Kellhus flicks dirt into the man's face and cuts his head off. I was literary speechless and slightly angry. Luckily bakker gave us Pokwas and he was awesome.

The indiani Jones scene

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YyBtMxZgQs

PRETTY FUCKING MUCH! EXECPT I HAD A MOMENT OF CONNECTION WITH THE ZEUMI GUY.
"Wutrim kut mi’puru kamuir!"

TaoHorror

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« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2017, 01:03:10 am »
Sorweel ... I remember reading the pages of metaphors Bakker went on and on about his ( depression? humiliation? failure? ) devastated state of mind for him losing his father and his country to the GO. I remember thinking it was going on too long, but when it finally let up, I actually got to understand what he was suffering. I am not royalty ( big surprise! ) and didn't have empathy for a fallen king. With all of us little people who suffer the decisions of our leaders, I have never "gotten" the sense of loss and failure for a king/queen ( don't pull out the violins for the fantastically rich, hopefully for obvious reasons ). But it did take all of that to make it hit home for a little person, such as myself. It was amazing writing to be able to do that to me. And then the mad trial he sustained "traveling" through Ishterebinth ... yes, agreed, I feel for him too. And when the giant non-man at the end of it ( forget his name ) "pulls him in two" ... I initially thought he killed him, pulling him apart, per se. But then realized when he showed back up, he pulled that cage off his head! Awesome stuff.

I googled that as you directed - don't really pictured him as that, LOL - but I take your meaning, someone who is WAY out of place.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 01:04:42 am by TaoHorror »
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