[TUC Spoilers] Sorweel

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codebread

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« Reply #30 on: July 23, 2017, 04:20:45 am »
Sorweel's development as a character was probably my favorite in this series, perhaps the entire 7-book saga so far, despite my initial distaste for him. I absolutely loved that the WLW was brought back in this way-- especially so suddenly that you simply think he's gone insane at first. It makes perfect sense... of course Yatwer would find a new Warrior to use as soon as she could. You just don't expect the WLW to be brought back after its defeat in TGO.

It may have been my favorite arc in the book, actually. Damn, it was good. That being said, I kind of hope that's where Sorweel's story ends. It was so fitting, I think, to have him finally become the assassin he thought he was and ascend to heaven (if that's what happened...).

Cüréthañ

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« Reply #31 on: July 23, 2017, 04:38:09 am »
Nah, I hated the way Sorweel lost his agency and his life. Was really hoping he would continue to mature and become a Nau Cayuti type hero, shoulder to shoulder with Serwe. :(

However, his ending was so abrupt and almost indefinite enough for me to tell myself that he survived with the aid of Serwa.
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Woden

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« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2017, 10:30:28 am »
Nah, I hated the way Sorweel lost his agency and his life. Was really hoping he would continue to mature and become a Nau Cayuti type hero, shoulder to shoulder with Serwe. :(

I feel pretty much the same and honestly I don't think that he (unlike Kellhus and Cnaiur) will play an afterlife role in the next book.
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The Sharmat

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« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2017, 09:33:19 pm »
Was I the only one that kept expecting him to show up again after getting knifed in the head? It was so unceremonious. Not even really much of a death scene. The Reader doesn't even really get to see the body. But the book goes on and he's clearly dead. So I have to wonder what the whole point of this character was. He annoyed me at first, but I really grew to like him and perversely enough ended up rooting for him and Serwa. But in the end, despite some great moments, the course of his arc just seems to be waffling over killing Kellhus then failing to kill Kellhus and abrubtly dying. Rather...anticlimactic, to me. Not just in a narrative sense, but an emotional one. In a way he was the primary protagonist of the whole Great Ordeal subplot. But it just amounts to...nothing. Am I wrong?

littlegrice

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« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2017, 09:44:31 pm »
I think maybe he was there mostly to show is the last Nonman Mansion and how bad it had really become for them, and to somehow have a POV that wasn't just being tortured for however long it was they were there.  Before and after that, he was just a vessel of the Dread Mother.  All of his good stuff came from the Mansion.
Well, he no talkie good like me and you, so his vocabulistics is limited to 'TELL ME...' and 'WHAT DO YOU SEE?' and, 'WHAT AM I?' Exclusively in that order.

The Sharmat

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« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2017, 09:48:03 pm »
Given the method of his use as a POV in the Mansion, Bakker could literally have used any character for that. It also bugs me that when he died he wasn't even really sorweel. A lot of his identity was just suddenly consumed by the White Luck with no warning. Something about the whole thing just feels off to me, and not in a good "Damn you brilliant bastard for making me like this character" way.

littlegrice

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« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2017, 09:57:57 pm »
Given the method of his use as a POV in the Mansion, Bakker could literally have used any character for that. It also bugs me that when he died he wasn't even really sorweel. A lot of his identity was just suddenly consumed by the White Luck with no warning. Something about the whole thing just feels off to me, and not in a good "Damn you brilliant bastard for making me like this character" way.

He couldn't have though, right?  Not without using an Erratic, and we have all seen how confusing THAT is from the Atrocity Tale.  Sorweel was the only human that(sort of) had free reign in the Mansion.  I definitely agree that for as much time we spent with him, he went out quick and ugly, and to no real purpose from the viewpoint of those of us whom had begrudgingly come to like him. 
Well, he no talkie good like me and you, so his vocabulistics is limited to 'TELL ME...' and 'WHAT DO YOU SEE?' and, 'WHAT AM I?' Exclusively in that order.

bridgeburner

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« Reply #37 on: August 01, 2017, 10:02:57 pm »
I kind of feel the same way. The sudden transformation into The White Luck Warrior was jarring and confusing to me, especially because the mechanics of the WLW are never clearly explained. The first WLW appeared in a whole sequence of events with draining a human and being "birthed", but then he (died?) in Momemn and suddenly was able to non-corporeally transfer to Sorweel?

The Sharmat

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« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2017, 10:20:29 pm »
To be fair, the White Luck Warrior also seems to have possessed the guy that he used to father himself with Psatma. It's hard to follow given the disjointed nonlinear narrative of his first PoV segment, but there's a vision of him suddenly up and leaving a woman and child that appear to be his family.

ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #39 on: August 01, 2017, 10:30:36 pm »
Was I the only one that kept expecting him to show up again after getting knifed in the head? It was so unceremonious. Not even really much of a death scene. The Reader doesn't even really get to see the body. But the book goes on and he's clearly dead. So I have to wonder what the whole point of this character was. He annoyed me at first, but I really grew to like him and perversely enough ended up rooting for him and Serwa. But in the end, despite some great moments, the course of his arc just seems to be waffling over killing Kellhus then failing to kill Kellhus and abrubtly dying. Rather...anticlimactic, to me. Not just in a narrative sense, but an emotional one. In a way he was the primary protagonist of the whole Great Ordeal subplot. But it just amounts to...nothing. Am I wrong?

I mostly agree with you, I really grew to like Sorweel as well over the course of the series and it was just so sad (and sudden) for him to die like that.
That said (and as has been mentioned in another TUC thread, I think), his whole character and arc might be a subversion of the teenage fantasy hero that has been chosen by this supernatural presence, goes on an adventure, falls in love, defeats the villain and lives happily ever after. Poor Sorweel is chosen by Yatwer, falls in love with Serwa and survives Ishterebinth, but ultimately fails to kill Kellhus and is unceremoniously murdered.
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« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2017, 10:36:09 pm »
Was I the only one that kept expecting him to show up again after getting knifed in the head? It was so unceremonious. Not even really much of a death scene. The Reader doesn't even really get to see the body. But the book goes on and he's clearly dead. So I have to wonder what the whole point of this character was. He annoyed me at first, but I really grew to like him and perversely enough ended up rooting for him and Serwa. But in the end, despite some great moments, the course of his arc just seems to be waffling over killing Kellhus then failing to kill Kellhus and abrubtly dying. Rather...anticlimactic, to me. Not just in a narrative sense, but an emotional one. In a way he was the primary protagonist of the whole Great Ordeal subplot. But it just amounts to...nothing. Am I wrong?

Merged threads... we have almost two pages of current threads in this subforum and there was a pre-existing Sorweel thread. It's getting ridiculous, though so very nice to see the forum active.
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The Sharmat

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« Reply #41 on: August 01, 2017, 11:01:25 pm »
That said (and as has been mentioned in another TUC thread, I think), his whole character and arc might be a subversion of the teenage fantasy hero that has been chosen by this supernatural presence, goes on an adventure, falls in love, defeats the villain and lives happily ever after. Poor Sorweel is chosen by Yatwer, falls in love with Serwa and survives Ishterebinth, but ultimately fails to kill Kellhus and is unceremoniously murdered.
I'd be ok with that but the way it's handled makes it seem like an afterthought. I mean Zsoronga's dead sure and Sorweel was kind of an isolate among the Ordeal in the first place but he drops and afterwards not so much as a thought is spared for him, in a series that turns heavily on introspection it's very noticeable as an omission to me.

Wilshire

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« Reply #42 on: June 12, 2019, 06:37:05 pm »
I took it as that Yatwer saved Sorweel from hell. Which makes Sorweel the third non damned character after Mim and Esmi.

Yatwer reached for Sorweel and brought him into her embrace, and presumably her after-life. Though, it seems no one has yet pointed out that even her most devout admit that and afterlife in Yatwer's presence would not be a pleasant one. There's a chance his ultimate fate is no better than anyone else's.
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