[TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S7)

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Woden

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« Reply #165 on: September 10, 2017, 09:52:23 am »
"And I have a tender spot in my heart for white walkers and wights and cursed things"
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solipsisticurge

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« Reply #166 on: September 10, 2017, 02:24:55 pm »
Season 7 saw the show become my go-to source for mindless fun. A Song of Ice and Fire - the video game you watch! My television viewing is done primarily at 3 or 4 AM when the wife and baby are asleep and I'm staying up out of stubborn refusal to be a responsible adult (and a childish demand that SOME portion of my day be spent selfishly), so the plot dropping a few IQ points wasn't too contentious for me. I got to see dragons blow shit up, the worst D&D party ever keep rolling criticals on not freezing to death, and the occasional tit. It met my meager needs.

I don't have any honest predictions for the finale. I long ago ceased contemplating GoT/ASoIaF's future as a survival mechanism against inevitable disappointment. I hope the little kid lady in the north (Lady Mormont?) does something spectacular, and that we see zombie Hodor.
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MSJ

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« Reply #167 on: September 10, 2017, 03:31:48 pm »
Quote from:  Woden
"And I have a tender spot in my heart for white walkers and wights and cursed things"

I'm very curious, why is it that you and others (Redeagl, I'm looking at you) have such a want and fascination with the bad guys winning? And, the white-walkers are the bad guys, a board of undead, killing a planet is certainly not the good guys. I'm just curious is all.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Redeagl

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« Reply #168 on: September 10, 2017, 04:39:02 pm »
Quote from:  Woden
"And I have a tender spot in my heart for white walkers and wights and cursed things"

I'm very curious, why is it that you and others (Redeagl, I'm looking at you) have such a want and fascination with the bad guys winning? And, the white-walkers are the bad guys, a board of undead, killing a planet is certainly not the good guys. I'm just curious is all.
I hate the show post season 4 or at least don't like it as much. It killed all my favourite characters ( Many of which are still alive in the books. ) and destroyed the character development of others that now the only thing they share with their book counterparts is their names. It now focuses on my lesser liked characters and it also became ultra predictable. The White Walkers winning would be a surprise. And I am a tragedy whore.BTW, my opinions on the books are pretty different. Now, if I read successfully between the lines and you are hinting about my support for the Consult, that's also a completely different and complex story. It's not just " Oh, I am so edgy I just want the bad guys to win!!!" . Ok, maybe there is some of that but there is also some completely legitimate reasons ( In my opinions.  ) for me to root for them.
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TLEILAXU

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« Reply #169 on: September 10, 2017, 07:30:38 pm »
I'm rooting for Qyburn.

Madness

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« Reply #170 on: September 13, 2017, 12:15:14 am »
Quote from:  Woden
"And I have a tender spot in my heart for white walkers and wights and cursed things"

I'm very curious, why is it that you and others (Redeagl, I'm looking at you) have such a want and fascination with the bad guys winning? And, the white-walkers are the bad guys, a board of undead, killing a planet is certainly not the good guys. I'm just curious is all.

Totally aside but it really seems to be that this perspective stems from a hopeless view of humanity. I can't tell you how many people that I met travelling, young people even who can influence change and impact the world for the better with their lives, who said their primary motivation for travel was to see the world before it all went to shit.

To which, of course, I always responded that they were already making their choice not to do better.

As far as I can tell, this is the thought of all these readers too. Fuck the world, it's horrible, humanity can't do better, burn it down, and hopefully something better arises.

But - obviously from me - we should strive for better despite any perceived hopelessness.

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H

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« Reply #171 on: September 13, 2017, 11:44:57 am »
Well, the whole Night King thing is mostly a joke, but one taken from the roots of a real sentiment.  That pretty much all the characters have gotten to the level of being somewhat annoying (on the show).  Honestly, the Night King is refreshing in his steadfastness and lack of nonsense and bullshit.  You know the Night King isn't going to make some outlandish and dumb choice, he is just going to kill you, because he is going to kill every one.

Sure, the "default" is to view the Starks as a force of "good" but that ends up a little problematic, as Anna Smith Spark explains it.  It's interesting, in the face of a lack of appealing options, seems I am not alone in defaulting to nihilism.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

Madness

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« Reply #172 on: September 13, 2017, 06:00:49 pm »
Thanks for that link, H. I'd seen it on facebook but hadn't gotten around to reading it... or so many, many other things in my life right now.

I've always simply seen it as if we don't fight for some kind of philosophic ideal of humanity's betterment simply because we find reasons not to try, then we can't say for certain that doing better isn't possible.
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Woden

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« Reply #173 on: September 13, 2017, 08:33:16 pm »
Well, the whole Night King thing is mostly a joke, but one taken from the roots of a real sentiment.  That pretty much all the characters have gotten to the level of being somewhat annoying (on the show).  Honestly, the Night King is refreshing in his steadfastness and lack of nonsense and bullshit.  You know the Night King isn't going to make some outlandish and dumb choice, he is just going to kill you, because he is going to kill every one.

Sure, the "default" is to view the Starks as a force of "good" but that ends up a little problematic, as Anna Smith Spark explains it.  It's interesting, in the face of a lack of appealing options, seems I am not alone in defaulting to nihilism.

I have exactly the same reasons to desire the victory of the good Night King.
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« Reply #174 on: September 14, 2017, 11:01:38 am »
Thanks for that link, H. I'd seen it on facebook but hadn't gotten around to reading it... or so many, many other things in my life right now.

I've always simply seen it as if we don't fight for some kind of philosophic ideal of humanity's betterment simply because we find reasons not to try, then we can't say for certain that doing better isn't possible.

Well, if I understand what you are saying, I think that "rooting" for the Night King isn't about abandoning the ideal of ideals of humanity, it's kind of just the opposite.  We want the humans to be better, but simply, the characters in the show just aren't.  And as the seasons have gone on, they have become less dimensional.  We just want it to end.

Thing is, if it were real life, of course we wouldn't even jokingly pull for the Night King.  But it's not real life.  We want a meaningful ending, where the stupidity of the characters is rewarded with a cold and deserved death.  What we are going to get is probably some pastiche, cliche, happy ending though.  We can hope though for some sort of middle ground, but I don't know what that would be.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

Woden

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« Reply #175 on: September 14, 2017, 04:09:28 pm »
I am always a defender of lost causes and sadly the Night King is not going to win. And we will have to suffer some dumb Starkgaryen moralfag on the Iron Throne.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 05:27:22 pm by Woden »
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Madness

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« Reply #176 on: September 14, 2017, 04:30:30 pm »
Well, if I understand what you are saying, I think that "rooting" for the Night King isn't about abandoning the ideal of ideals of humanity, it's kind of just the opposite.  We want the humans to be better, but simply, the characters in the show just aren't.  And as the seasons have gone on, they have become less dimensional.  We just want it to end.

Obviously, I'm just taking it too far ;). But I think you got it. That's the sentiment in the last sentence. I've met so many people who think we should just end.

Thing is, if it were real life, of course we wouldn't even jokingly pull for the Night King.  But it's not real life.  We want a meaningful ending, where the stupidity of the characters is rewarded with a cold and deserved death.  What we are going to get is probably some pastiche, cliche, happy ending though.  We can hope though for some sort of middle ground, but I don't know what that would be.

Well, that's the thing I've always been fixated on in my own writing - when I ever do so. All writing is anachronistic and thus contemporary of when read (not necessarily of when written, though that certainly as well), much as all writers might wish to be immortalized.

I am always a defender of lost causes and sadly the Night King is not going to win. And we will have to suffer some dumb Starkgaryen moralfag in the Iron Throne.

Lol, maybe. I've wondered about what Martin's readerly catharsis will look like almost as much as Bakker's since Martin is so embedded in popular culture at this point and has served as impetus for a lot of this grimdark hokum (though, strictly TV watchers aren't going to give a shit how the books end).
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« Reply #177 on: September 15, 2017, 11:46:59 am »
Well, if I understand what you are saying, I think that "rooting" for the Night King isn't about abandoning the ideal of ideals of humanity, it's kind of just the opposite.  We want the humans to be better, but simply, the characters in the show just aren't.  And as the seasons have gone on, they have become less dimensional.  We just want it to end.

Obviously, I'm just taking it too far ;). But I think you got it. That's the sentiment in the last sentence. I've met so many people who think we should just end.

It's kind of a microcosm of life: tending to drag on longer than really ideal.

Thing is, if it were real life, of course we wouldn't even jokingly pull for the Night King.  But it's not real life.  We want a meaningful ending, where the stupidity of the characters is rewarded with a cold and deserved death.  What we are going to get is probably some pastiche, cliche, happy ending though.  We can hope though for some sort of middle ground, but I don't know what that would be.

Well, that's the thing I've always been fixated on in my own writing - when I ever do so. All writing is anachronistic and thus contemporary of when read (not necessarily of when written, though that certainly as well), much as all writers might wish to be immortalized.

Yeah, while the happy ending is psychologically pleasing, I think it's the same way in which a tub of ice cream is dietarily pleasing.  It's what we like, so it's what we desire, but that isn't really what enriches us.  The psychological "food" that enriches us is also probably the least desirable.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

TaoHorror

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« Reply #178 on: August 17, 2018, 05:16:12 pm »
I love GoT the tv show, big time. I was rooting for dragon lady, but now rooting for the Starks and the White Walkers. Why? As shallow as it is, I love the evil in cinema/television. Why I love The Consult so much! For whatever deep ( or shallow? ) psychological reason, I very much enjoy dramatic horror in art, but hate it in real life. Maybe stories about the every day don't do it for me because I'm living that story, don't need any reminders. And the deep dive into what makes evil evil is fascinating - and to pull it off, got to put myself into their shoes. Arya is my hero, she is one bad mother fucker, love it! And beautifully done, so much better than Wonder Woman did in presenting a female heroine bad-ass ( Wonder woman has super powers, or at least enhanced to earth humans ... while Arya is a plausible path for a woman to rise to best any male ( well, there is the fantastic in GoT, but hoping you get my meaning - it didn't take super powers for her to rise ).

I think the ending is either one or both the bastard/dragon woman dies with the White Walkers annihilating the North and Arya assassinates Cercei and take her place ... maybe taking her look so no one is the wiser, or maybe not if her own people are hunting for her neck by that point.
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Francis Buck

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« Reply #179 on: September 25, 2018, 01:17:34 pm »
Yeah I mean, after the nosedive the writing took from S4 to S5 (4 was the best season overall IMO, 5 the worst), I found S6 and S7 to be fine. It's definitely not as solid as seasons 1-4, especially in terms of dialogue and writing, but there are still some great moments (and a few brilliant ones), and the spectacle is unmatched. Probably more than anything, S6 and S7 are better simply for marking the point of FINALLY seeing this story move into the endgame territory, particularly if you're a fan of the books from before the show started.

I've also been invested in these characters for so long that the well-done cathartic and/or heartfelt moments play me like a fiddle. Even the less amazing actors on the show work for me at this point, it's a bit like Star Wars. Like, Emilia Clarke and Kit Harrington don't always knock it out of the park, but they've just "become" Danaerys and Jon Snow for me at this point (same is true of many other characters).

I've mentioned it before but no episode of television or even cinema has ever hit me as hard as Battle of the Bastards. The combo of my still-genuine investment in the Starks and wanting to see them finally reunite and kick some ass combined with the catharsis of it actually happening (and in pretty epic fashion) was like nothing else for me. Literally the only other thing that could have drawn such a strong feeling from me was, ironically, Star Wars, but TLJ was a such a letdown that it made me lose interest in the franchise in a way I didn't think was possible.

So yeah, I'm all aboard for the climax of GoT. As long is the writing doesn't get S5 levels of bad, the spectacle and catharsis of seeing this series come to a conclusion will be enough for me.

Mark my words, we will miss this show when it's over. It's far from perfect but good cinematic epic fantasy is incredibly hard to pull off and I doubt we'll see something on this level again for a long time.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2018, 01:27:28 pm by Francis Buck »