[TUC Spoilers] Nitpicks...

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Francis Buck's Crush

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« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2017, 05:34:07 pm »
If Imhalias was the father the baby would have been Norsirai, and I am pretty sure Akka would have remarked on that. Maybe Bakker just wanted him to be born before the NG rises.
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Simas Polchias

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« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2017, 06:09:33 pm »
Yes, that's the information we had from before, but on page 186 (TUC paperback):
Yep, I've just done a little part of quoting these guys' statuses without conjectures.
Now is conjectures' time! :з
It's a mistake, it's a retcon, it's a different timeline (poor excuse or great plot layer, lol).

ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2017, 06:14:07 pm »
If Imhalias was the father the baby would have been Norsirai, and I am pretty sure Akka would have remarked on that. Maybe Bakker just wanted him to be born before the NG rises.

Deep down, I do believe Akka is the baby's father, but I am having way too much fun with the "Imhailas Jr." theory not to keep trying to find more evidence in its favour. :) The 6-month-long pregnancy, timeline error or qirri side effect, just lends itself to it.

Can't tell that much of a baby's future appearance by its look at birth, anyway (Caucasian babies can appear a bit darker-skinned at birth/shortly after than they will be later on in real life, I remember that was the case with my younger brother). Or maybe the baby took after Mimara (even though most characters look like their fathers in this series...) and is paler than Achamian, while still darker-skinned than a Norsirai would be. :P

He definitely had to be born before the No-God rose, and narrowly avoided being stillborn like his twin considering the short length of time between his birth and the No-God rising. He was lucky the qirri apparently has the side effect of helping with fetal lung development, among other things. ;)


Yep, I've just done a little part of quoting these guys' statuses without conjectures.
Now is conjectures' time! :з
It's a mistake, it's a retcon, it's a different timeline (poor excuse or great plot layer, lol).

Poor Proyas, as if he didn't have enough problems, he is trying to reconcile memories from two different timelines. :) I like that theory.
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
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"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

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« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2017, 07:10:38 pm »
You know, there is the pre-born Dune precedent ;).
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ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2017, 07:14:42 pm »
You know, there is the pre-born Dune precedent ;).

For Proyas? Maybe he is the Kwisatz Haderach (in another timeline). ;)
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasûrimbor Kayûtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

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« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2017, 07:25:49 pm »
Oh, sorry, I'm not paying enough attention. Maybe I'm in the wrong thread. I was referring to Akka Jr. (regardless of actual paternity).
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ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2017, 07:36:12 pm »
Oh, sorry, I'm not paying enough attention. Maybe I'm in the wrong thread. I was referring to Akka Jr. (regardless of actual paternity).

Ah, as he was exposed to qirri in the womb as compared to spice? Makes sense. :) While I don't think he will have memories of ancestors, I am almost certain that he will end up being affected in some way (besides the whole coming to term in six months thing...and if I remember correctly, wasn't there also a shortened pregnancy in Dune Messiah, due to the effects of the spice?), maybe in his future use of sorcery?


And speaking of that, is "Akka Jr." (if actually Akka's son) the only confirmed example we have in the series (historical figures included, though I can't remember any) of someone whose parents are both of the Few?
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasûrimbor Kayûtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

Deustriplo

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« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2017, 08:23:16 pm »
These don't really fit into the Errata (one of these is probably a retcon) so here are two little nitpicky things that I noticed:

-Proyas' father's name seems to have changed, he is referred to as Onoyas in this book while before he was Eukernas II (admittedly, I had to look it up because I only knew it was different and didn't recall the actual previous name). Was this a retcon?

-Mimara's pregnancy only seems to have lasted for 6 months. I know, I know, I'm being annoying about timelines and dates again, but hear me out. When I first read TAE, I was wondering when Mimara would give birth (trying to figure out the length of time TUC would span). The chapter where she and Achamian have sex has a date of early spring, 4132. She ends up giving birth in early autumn of the same year.
You might say we don't know if seasons in Eärwa last 3 months, but...in PON, Serwë got pregnant in the spring of 4111 and gave birth in winter of that year, thus it would seem seasons do indeed last ~3 months in Eärwa.
So either this is a timeline mistake (future retcon?) or that baby really lucked out in being continuously exposed to qirri while in the womb and came out with the development a full-term baby would have. ;) (Or, crackpot thought, Akka really isn't the father after all.)

When Mimara revealled she was pregnant I always thought that the father was Khellus...
There is a passage in TJE that made me think this. Will look it up at some point.
Also if Esmenet was such a viable breeding partner her daughter would have similar chances to be one as well.
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« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2017, 08:41:27 pm »
When Mimara revealled she was pregnant I always thought that the father was Khellus...
There is a passage in TJE that made me think this. Will look it up at some point.
Also if Esmenet was such a viable breeding partner her daughter would have similar chances to be one as well.
"waste not, want not..."

Truth Shines...

She claimed Kellhus was her child's father to the Captain, but that doesn't seem to have been a viable possibility. Timing aside, there's nothing in the text to suggest that Kellhus and Mimara ever had sex.

Still an interesting thought, and it is true that a daughter of Esmenet could likely have higher chances of giving birth to a half-Dûnyain child than any random worldborn woman.
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasûrimbor Kayûtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

Francis Buck's Crush

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« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2017, 05:09:07 pm »
Mimara hardly saw Kellhus during her stay in the palace. And I am also pretty sure she would have reamarked on that :P
“The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before?”

- Chronicler of the Chroniclers

Cuttlefish

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« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2017, 05:55:48 pm »
I thought the reasonn Esmenet could bear Kellhus's children was her intellect. Mimara isn't dumb, but I don't know if she has her mother's intellect. And why would Kellhus impregnate Mimara and just let her go?

It'd be somewhat hilarious, though, if Achamian ended up raising Kellhus's son as his own. And the relationship between these people would get rather soap opera-y.

Achmian and Esmenet are in love, but Kellhus ends up stealing Esmenet while Achamian has an affair with Esmenet's daughter Mimara, who is impregnated by Kellhus without him realizing that the child is not his

Deustriplo

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« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2017, 09:16:55 pm »
I thought the reasonn Esmenet could bear Kellhus's children was her intellect. Mimara isn't dumb, but I don't know if she has her mother's intellect. And why would Kellhus impregnate Mimara and just let her go?

It'd be somewhat hilarious, though, if Achamian ended up raising Kellhus's son as his own. And the relationship between these people would get rather soap opera-y.

Achmian and Esmenet are in love, but Kellhus ends up stealing Esmenet while Achamian has an affair with Esmenet's daughter Mimara, who is impregnated by Kellhus without him realizing that the child is not his

One of the things that happens throughout the narrative is the parallels we see with the Now and the Past.
Some of Akka's "dreams" as Seswatha's reveal or hint that he is in fact the father of  Anasûrimbor Nau-Cayûti? And somewhere also say that  Anasûrimbor Nau-Cayûti had a stillborn twin?

Khellus did not let Mimara go imo. For me the answer lies at the beginning of TJE. The fact that some imperial official approached the Skin Eaters always made me think that he sent or influence Mimara to seek Akka to take their own journey shadowing the great ordeal.
Always thought they would play a greater role at the End.
Of course the fact that Mimara and Akka had so little influence in the narrative on TUC probably means I am wrong. But that is what I always believed.

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Deustriplo

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« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2017, 09:52:47 pm »
When Mimara revealled she was pregnant I always thought that the father was Khellus...
There is a passage in TJE that made me think this. Will look it up at some point.
Also if Esmenet was such a viable breeding partner her daughter would have similar chances to be one as well.
"waste not, want not..."

Truth Shines...

She claimed Kellhus was her child's father to the Captain, but that doesn't seem to have been a viable possibility. Timing aside, there's nothing in the text to suggest that Kellhus and Mimara ever had sex.

Still an interesting thought, and it is true that a daughter of Esmenet could likely have higher chances of giving birth to a half-Dûnyain child than any random worldborn woman.

That was not the passage that made me think she was carrying Khellus baby. ;-) Its something it happens when she is trying to convince Akka to teach her just before their journey begins. I will look it up one of these days.

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Deustriplo

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« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2017, 10:07:52 pm »
I thought the reasonn Esmenet could bear Kellhus's children was her intellect. Mimara isn't dumb, but I don't know if she has her mother's intellect. And why would Kellhus impregnate Mimara and just let her go?

It'd be somewhat hilarious, though, if Achamian ended up raising Kellhus's son as his own. And the relationship between these people would get rather soap opera-y.

Achmian and Esmenet are in love, but Kellhus ends up stealing Esmenet while Achamian has an affair with Esmenet's daughter Mimara, who is impregnated by Kellhus without him realizing that the child is not his

Also I think that intellect had nothing to do with breading Dûnyains at least not from the mothers prespective. After all don't forget the state of the Whale mothers at Ishaul.  ;) Hardly a picture of intelectual beings been chained for breeding purposes only...
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« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2017, 10:53:52 pm »
Also I think that intellect had nothing to do with breading Dûnyains at least not from the mothers prespective. After all don't forget the state of the Whale mothers at Ishaul.  ;) Hardly a picture of intelectual beings been chained for breeding purposes only...

I think intellect was necessary for worldborn partners as it made it more likely (somehow...these Dûnyain genetics are so strange) that they would produce viable children. It's stated in the text that Esmenet found women "of native intellect" (I haven't looked it up but I think that was the phrase used) to be Kellhus' concubines after she no longer wanted to have more of his children.
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasûrimbor Kayûtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)