[TUC Spoilers] Inchoroi in future books

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TLEILAXU

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« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2017, 10:42:33 pm »
The way I see it, the Progenitors are not sitting somewhere far away, rather, the Ark and its inhabitants are what became of them, or at least some of them.

So does shutting the Outside off in Earwa somehow shut it off for the entire universe? Why is that? I do think it's reasonable to assume that because there is sorcery on Earwa that the border between it and the Outside are more porous, therefore making salvation more likely somehow.

I was kinda disappointed the Progenitors are pretty much ultra-hedonistic Eldar who got wind of Slaanesh before the shit hit the fan and made the Inchoroi as essentially Dark Eldar shock troops
Nah. If anything, they are more like the Necrons (before the sissification), trying to shut the world from the Warp. Anyway, 40k comparisons suck.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 10:55:51 pm by tleilaxu »

SmilerLoki

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« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2017, 10:47:32 pm »
The way I see it, the Progenitors are not sitting somewhere far away, rather, the Ark and its inhabitants are what became of them, or at least some of them.
Since we don't know for sure, I very much like both theories.

The Sharmat

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« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2017, 10:55:24 pm »
That would kind of make the Progenitors backstory redundant since that's already what we thought about the Inchoroi before this book, I thought?

Did we ever find out what the point of a synthese is or why aurang had to use one and what ever happened to the synthese?
It's a soul housing tekne construct. It's just a lot stealthier than a 10 foot tall albino rape monster. I used to think that maybe Aurang's body wasn't very functional these days but Aspect Emperor stuff proved that wrong.

So does shutting the Outside off in Earwa somehow shut it off for the entire universe? Why is that? I do think it's reasonable to assume that because there is sorcery on Earwa that the border between it and the Outside are more porous, therefore making salvation more likely somehow.

I was kinda disappointed the Progenitors are pretty much ultra-hedonistic Eldar who got wind of Slaanesh before the shit hit the fan and made the Inchoroi as essentially Dark Eldar shock troops
That was kind of the Inchoroi's backstory anyway. But I think the progenitor revelation kind of emphasizes more "they reached too far" over "holy shit I can make my tentacle hentai real thank you Tekne, god is dead".
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 10:57:02 pm by The Sharmat »

Baztek

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« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2017, 12:13:50 am »
Yeah it's kinda weak the Inchoroi are just extra-rapey versions of the already-rapey Progenitors.

I also kinda wish Bakker would distance himself a bit from the doom and gloom nihilist circlejerk blogosphere (like guys like Alien Ecologies, marrone dude with the Landian screeds on nothingness and the grotesque and yadda yadda yadda take a walk outside my bruh) since while the issues he wrestles with are fascinating I'm pretty sure society wouldn't collapse over an orgasm button/novel ways to experience an orgasm. It's an understandable concern for a sex-obsessed culture but it'd get weird looks from members of a culture that don't think the human condition begins and ends with a few spurts of white stuff.

The Sharmat

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« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2017, 12:18:20 am »
To be fair society didn't collapse for the Progenitors, did it? They were able to build that huge Ark to try and fix things. Society changed, but it didn't collapse. And even then, a lot of the problem was discovering they lived in a universe with objective morality. Which may or may not be the case in the real world.

I solve the other problem by never reading Bakker's blog.

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« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2017, 04:06:34 am »
Anyway, 40k comparisons suck.

I don't know about that. Duskweaver seems to have made many an apt analogy of the years - though my understanding of 40k is limited to Dawn of War and Abnett's Gaunt's Ghosts series.

I also kinda wish Bakker would distance himself a bit from the doom and gloom nihilist circlejerk blogosphere (like guys like Alien Ecologies, marrone dude with the Landian screeds on nothingness and the grotesque and yadda yadda yadda take a walk outside my bruh) since while the issues he wrestles with are fascinating I'm pretty sure society wouldn't collapse over an orgasm button/novel ways to experience an orgasm. It's an understandable concern for a sex-obsessed culture but it'd get weird looks from members of a culture that don't think the human condition begins and ends with a few spurts of white stuff.

I really don't pretend to care or understand Bakker's overarching posits regarding "the human condition" but I've known enough addicts in my life to know that many people are inherently lazy and would gladly do the Compulsive Rat Cocaine dance until their mortal husk kicks the can.

All that much easier when wired up a la Neuropath.
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The Sharmat

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« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2017, 04:14:46 am »
Those people wouldn't build a world-ship full of living weapons though.

Madness

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« Reply #37 on: August 09, 2017, 04:24:14 am »
They might if they discovered Damnation?
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The Sharmat

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« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2017, 04:57:10 am »
I doubt they'd have the will to leave their happy button.

Baztek

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« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2017, 05:36:53 am »
I swear they did studies that proved most people would only press the button after feeling they've earned it, and that we seek more complex fulfillment than simply press button -> cream in pantaloons

EdwardReynolds

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« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2017, 06:24:17 am »
Yeah it's kinda weak the Inchoroi are just extra-rapey versions of the already-rapey Progenitors.

Is there anything that says the progenitors are rapey? All i remember is that they exist, I dont think anything about them is explained. Glad to be proven wrong, but afaik we have no indication of anything about them other then they come from space and are damned. As is pointed out thoroughly in the books it doesnt take much to be damned. Born in the wrong place? Damned.

The Sharmat

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« Reply #41 on: August 09, 2017, 07:09:47 am »
I swear they did studies that proved most people would only press the button after feeling they've earned it, and that we seek more complex fulfillment than simply press button -> cream in pantaloons
I don't know anything about those studies but I'd be willing to bet you'd see the standards for "I've earned it" steadily drop over time. Of course to really do the test you'd have to be using opiates or heroin or something since pleasure is a lot more complex than just hooking up electrodes near a mythical "pleasure center". At least in humans. And I doubt they did that.

TLEILAXU

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« Reply #42 on: August 09, 2017, 07:12:22 am »
Yeah it's kinda weak the Inchoroi are just extra-rapey versions of the already-rapey Progenitors.

Is there anything that says the progenitors are rapey? All i remember is that they exist, I dont think anything about them is explained. Glad to be proven wrong, but afaik we have no indication of anything about them other then they come from space and are damned. As is pointed out thoroughly in the books it doesnt take much to be damned. Born in the wrong place? Damned.
There's a part where the Mutilated say something like the more advanced they became, the less moral they also became.

I don't know about that. Duskweaver seems to have made many an apt analogy of the years - though my understanding of 40k is limited to Dawn of War and Abnett's Gaunt's Ghosts series.
Yeah it probably isn't that bad. 40k just triggers me because there's so much... I don't know, cheese. They changed the Necrons from being ancient slaves to dark
 (physical) Gods to being butthurt emos in robo-suits. That's impossible to forgive. There's a lot of similarities between the Warp and the Outside though.

Duskweaver

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« Reply #43 on: August 09, 2017, 12:02:46 pm »
In making 40k analogies, it's best to stay away from the more recent iterations of the lore, as in many ways 40k has become a third-rate fanfic of itself.

The only comparisons worth making are to the early (mid 80s to early 90s) stuff, when the nature of the Warp, the Chaos Gods and the God-Emperor of Mankind were first being laid down in print. My understanding is that Bakker was into D&D in a big way in the mid-late 80s, which means he was probably reading White Dwarf magazine, at least sporadically, just at the time that those aspects of the 40k lore were being excerpted there from the Realms of Chaos books.

Anyway, about the rats thing. Later experiments showed that rats only get hopelessly addicted if they're stressed to begin with (e.g. from being kept in a tiny fucking cage with no stimuli). Rats kept in an 'enriched' environment will still give themselves cocaine hits occasionally, but they don't show the classical addiction symptoms of just sitting there dosing themselves continuously to the exclusion of all else. Humans seem to show the same dichotomy. Poor, stressed, miserable folks get addicted really easily. As do rich but tormented types (e.g. celebrity introverts). But lots of affluent and not-particularly-stressed-out people do illegal drugs without any real ill-effects. They're not as newsworthy as the celeb overdose-suicides, and they don't usually come to the attentions of law-enforcement, of course, so you seldom hear about them.
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« Reply #44 on: August 09, 2017, 12:56:04 pm »
There is a big dif between illegal drugs and wireheading tho.  Like, the whole 'we seek complicated fulfillment...' there's a wire for that.  You can push 'kids finally out the door and going off to college', or a spritz of 'mother is walking again'.  Can't enjoy it because you know it is fake?  There's a wire for that.  Now you are past that hangup!

The Progenitors culture never stood a chance.  Once you figure out that people are just a bunch of competing causes, and that brain manipulation can change that, it is pretty much all over for any coherent notions of the self.  I imagine they'd have lazed away forever if they hadn't discovered Damnation.