[TUC Spoilers]What was the point

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MSJ

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« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2017, 02:51:27 pm »
Also, i hate when someone starts a thread, bitches and moans, doesnt give us enough info to know what their issue is, then doesnt participate anymore.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Walter

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« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2017, 03:00:34 pm »
I dunno, I think it's fine.

Like, very very few people read anything, at all.  It is terrifying how few people have read a book since college.  Authors are basically hurling their work into a void.

This person read all seven of these books, and felt invested enough to google up a website where they could write what they thought about it.  That's an incredible level of engagement.

Yeah, I disagree with their thoughts, but whatever.  The fact that they had em is a great sign for the books.

MSJ

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« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2017, 03:30:12 pm »
Well, maybe your right. Id just like to hear the specifics is all.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Wilshire

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« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2017, 03:50:13 pm »
Wilshire, i cant recommend highly enough to take up BK's rec on Three Body Problem. Deals with alot of these issues and from what ive reas so far, is very good.
I'll put it on the list. Unfortunately, its a long, long list, and I'm at like 3 books this year lol.

Also, i hate when someone starts a thread, bitches and moans, doesnt give us enough info to know what their issue is, then doesnt participate anymore.
Comments like this discourage people from posting. I can understand your frustration, but hey, there's some 25 replies to this topic, most of which don't address the initial post since it was non substantive anyway. I call that an overall win for the forum, regardless of fair or foul original intent of the OP.

Its really the responsibility of those who respond to encourage further discussion. A cessation of the discussion, imo, is largely a failing on their part to engage the OP. For what its worth, I take it as a personal failing on my part.

The greater impact of a thread is that all the posts are permanent. If some future user comes across this and clicks it, what will they see? A bunch of superfans flaming someone not part of the circle-jerk, or a community interested in engaging deeper discussion with even though who disagree? If the former, I have failed and they will leave, and if the latter then maybe they will feel compelled to participate themselves. :) . No follow-up of the OP does not change that outcome.

« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 03:52:48 pm by Wilshire »
One of the other conditions of possibility.

MSJ

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« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2017, 03:57:31 pm »
Wilshire, just say im bad at the internet and slap me on the wrist. You know i do this once a month... ;)
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Wilshire

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« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2017, 04:15:48 pm »
Wilshire, just say im bad at the internet and slap me on the wrist. You know i do this once a month... ;)
Big monologues are, apparently, more my style. Sorry lol, someone decided it would be a good idea to make me a moderator.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

MSJ

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« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2017, 04:18:38 pm »
Quote from:  Wilshire
Bakker has some nuggets down at the bottom of the acknowledgments section regarding this. Just a few words, maybe part of a sentence, but I think its quite telling. He wrote for a reason, that's clear. What that reason is will probably be a debate for as long as there are people asking why.

You do good, buddy! ;)
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 04:28:30 pm by MSJ »
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Erratic Halaroi

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« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2017, 04:48:05 pm »
Well said, Wilshire. Dissenting views should be welcome. Some are more helpful than others...but all should be welcome. I don't know if my view is dissenting or not as I liked the book...but I did find myself disappointed by it. My disappointment, while meaningful, is mostly my fault.  I fear I set my expectations for the book to high.  This is driven by two things:

1. It was my understanding that the TSTSNBN is not a sure thing and it's very possible that this is the closure of the series.  People are talking a lot about another series after this one and I will admit that it appears to be written as if there is more to come. If we get confirmation of that, then my reflection on this book will be much more positive as I will understand this is not the proverbial end.   

2. I have always found myself disappointed by endings. I remember reading the Hyperion series by Dan Simmons and being utterly disappointed with how it concluded. The difference between Hyperion and TSA is my expectations where MUCH higher for TSA...thus my disappointment is much more impactful. 

Again, these are more on me than anything else. To be clear, I loved the series and TUC...like the first poster said...10 years of my life have been invested in and evangelizing R Scott Bakker and these books. It's a testament to the author that his work would inspire these types of emotions. Being inspired, positive or negative, by the written word is a good thing...I wish it happen more often to more people.  Bakkers' work inspired me...it made me think, it inspired me to research, it forced me to question my beliefs and grow as a person...that is what is important...and for that, I thank him.         

H

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« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2017, 04:54:21 pm »
Bakkers' work inspired me...it made me think, it inspired me to research, it forced me to question my beliefs and grow as a person...that is what is important...and for that, I thank him.

Serious question, the ending of TUC did not do the same for you?
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasűrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

Erratic Halaroi

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« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2017, 06:02:41 pm »
It absolutely did. That said, I can be both inspired and disappointed at the same time. The end of TUC was awesome...but I was expecting double plus awesome...thus inspired and disappointed.  Again, I went into it thinking this is likely it...and we will not be getting TSTSNBN. I think having that lens on while reading really skewed what I was expecting from the book...which, ultimately, was a lot more closure than what we got. 

A specific example is Crabicus. As I was reaching the end and there was no mention (or action) on his part, I was more and more anticipating his arrival at the end...when the end came, as awesome as it was, he was no where to be found (that we could see).  Both he and the survivor were fantastic characters to introduce...and I get that the survivor served his purpose (much like Cleric...so fun to read about...but in the end, had a purpose and it was served) and accepted his leap for what is what (or for what I could understand of it at least). But Crabicus...I was absolutely expecting him to play a part...any part...but from what we had insight into, he did not. 

There are more examples but I hope that illustrates where I'm coming from.  I did not go into it with the expectation that there would be more books. I had high expectations for closure...grand, beautiful, jaw dropping closure.  While what we got was grand and beautiful, it was not the closure I was expecting...I wanted more...and that, largely, is on me.         

Wilshire

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« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2017, 06:07:46 pm »
2. I have always found myself disappointed by endings. I remember reading the Hyperion series by Dan Simmons and being utterly disappointed with how it concluded. The difference between Hyperion and TSA is my expectations where MUCH higher for TSA...thus my disappointment is much more impactful. 

Oh man, I loved the Hyperion Cantos, start to finish. I'm a sucker, it seems, for conclusions. I give a lot of grace to authors for writings as they will, regardless of expectation, and appreciate greatly when a story ends in a way that isn't satisfying in the way people expected it to be.

And I agree fully that, while TSA might not be concluded, people seem to be leaning heavily on the prospect of  TSTSNBN. TUC exists as it does, and another installment won't change that.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 06:10:12 pm by Wilshire »
One of the other conditions of possibility.

Erratic Halaroi

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« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2017, 06:29:15 pm »
I'm getting better at that...but clearly this particular cases is proving to be a little more challenging for me. :)  It's still fresh...I strongly suspect, over time, I will love it even more for what it is...even if it's the last we see (read) of this terrifying yet beautiful world.  I am and will always be a huge fan and evangelize the books to all who will listen.  I'm just processing why I feel this sense of...maybe disappointment is the wrong word...so I will say this sense of...wanting more.  Again, I think it comes down to my expectations vs a failure to deliver...Scott delivered...and I hope he is given the opportunity to deliver more.           

« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 06:37:49 pm by Erratic Halaroi »

codebread

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« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2017, 06:51:14 pm »
Having said it in other places, I'll be brief. I agree with the "What the hell?" sentiment for TUC's end overall. I was loving the first half of the book, but as soon as the attack on the Ark begins, I was feeling a bit let down. I was expecting more of a look into the Ark and Golgotterath itself, more of what the stories and Akka's Dreams had made me envision. We didn't really get any of that; just a lot of fighting outside of it and a look into the Golden Room.

Many of the plotlines that were set up aren't concluded (Crabicus, Ciphrang Assassin, Meppa, to name a few off the top of my head), and that's without acknowledging that the book creates a huge amount of questions at the end without explaining any of them. I think the ending would have felt more satisfying if it all hadn't happened so fast. However, right as you're expecting to get all of the answers, the entire plot turns on its head and the book ends.

Now, I love the way the story concludes by itself. The last line gives me chills. I think ending the story on disaster like this is awesome. I just wish that it had felt more coherent and less rushed. Keeping in mind that this is the conclusion to a series of books, I feel a bit cheated. I think you're going to get this opinion from most people who aren't aware that a third series might be written (Just take a look at the Goodreads reviews- they read much like OP's post and don't seem to know there is a planned third series).

I think if Bakker were to come out and say, "Yes there will definitely be a third series", I would feel better about it. As it stands, I liked the book a lot, but I have very mixed feelings about the ending.

panorama

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« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2017, 09:37:06 pm »
I agree. I feel like a decade of waiting and reading has been just flushed down the toilet. I'm cheesed off enough to register on this forum for the first time. I'll be posting my own thread to go over some of my frustration.

Nil Sertrax

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« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2017, 10:07:21 pm »
I've posted on this before and explained that I'm a huge fan of this series but I'm also disappointed in the ending.  It's not so much the end goal of inverting the standard fantasy trope where the over-matched heroes find some miraculous way to save the world but rather the opaque narrative.  I wanted to feel the full force of the world ending and the failure of what may have been the world's last best chance at survival but instead all I felt was a burning desire to read and reread the last chapter to figure out what the hell actually occurred.  I've read it again and again and I still can't make heads or tails of it.  And the real kicker is, neither can anyone else!  Beyond strange theories and wild speculations, nobody can say with any degree of certainty just what happened, never mind discussing the why things happened the way they did.   

I can't imagine Bakker's intention to wrap up this opus was to leave everyone completely confused but as his prose improved from book to book his narrative clarity got worse and worse.   I've said it before and I'll say it again, the whole Aspect Emperor series after the Judging Eye could have benefited greatly from a strong editor.