Unholy Consultation - *SUPER SPOILERIFIC*

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Anwurat

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« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2017, 09:07:39 pm »
What's the significance of his answer about the tapestry?

jurble

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« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2017, 09:09:54 pm »

Do you see RSB's response to my question about the tapestry?

The fact that an ancient knitter prophecized Mimara's pregnancy makes her child less important?

MSJ

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« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2017, 09:15:56 pm »
No, its important because Kellhus doesnt know the importance of it. Hence, he probably had no idea Mimara had the JE, ergo no Baby Kellhus.

ETA: i think we should move this to a thread. Ill start one.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 09:18:26 pm by MSJ »
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Woden

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« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2017, 09:18:25 pm »
No, its important because Kellhus soesnt know the importance of it. Hence, he probably had no idea Mimara had the JE, ergo no Baby Kellhus

I infer the same.
Know what your slaves believe, and you will always be their master.

jurble

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« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2017, 09:21:00 pm »
Not to derail this thread, but the Baby Kellhus Theory (henceforth to be referred to as M+A=K) isn't contingent on Kellhus knowing Mimara has TJE.  Its only presumption is that Kellhus is now a baby.

Hoary

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« Reply #35 on: July 28, 2017, 10:11:28 pm »
I've been reading the books and 3 pound brain for quite some time, and thank you Richard for answering what you can.

My question is more about message: Is it my understanding that the progenitors is something you see as something humanity is going towards, and ultimately, in your books so far is the implied message that too much knowledge and power, as demonstrated by both the progenitors (via tekne) and the non-men (via gnosis) - ultimately leads to damnation? Both of them stepping too close to the absolute, to bringing light to where ignorance should always rule. The only thing that will always win is absence - ignorance, the unknown. That is why the no-god was always inevitable, as it is the unknown. This is the same of the God of Gods, in a way. (I won't ask here because obviously you're saving that).

I guess what I'm asking is whether this is one of the messages you intend here, and that the moral we should see in it is the importance of leaving a bubble of ignorance, to respect the unknown's place and importance as defining us within what we do see. Since we cannot see ourselves we are both the ignorant and the ignorance. The importance of admitting ignorance, respecting it and take into consideration that not all pursuits should be taken, not all tracks should be explored.

Cū'jara-Cinmoi

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« Reply #36 on: July 28, 2017, 10:13:40 pm »
Scott, are you The God?  It would explain how the God can be both immanent (the books are composed of your thoughts) and transcendent.

The fact that the Judging Eye can see the No-God indicates that the God isn't asleep like Moe thought nor doesn't it care like Kellhus thought, since the very fact that Mimara possesses it indicates the God has some interest in the world, right?

Did you turn Kellhus into a baby (specifically Mimara's)?

edit: Oh, and the entire time I thought Kelmomas was supposed to be twin-souled, was he actually meant to represent non-conscious human thought via bicameralism?

edit 2: On skimming through the first-book again, I came to the conclusion that rage Kellhus feels when he sees Cnaiur rape Serwe must come from The God since Kellhus has no reason to feel such rage.  By the end of TTT, Kellhus is clearly communicating with The God.  At what point between the series did Kellhus convince himself that he wasn't a prophet and was there anything specific that pushed him in that direction?

edit 3: Sosering is one of the few Ordealmen described as being Saved as opposed to going to Hell.  Why is that?  Did he not engage in the rape and cannibalism or were there other contingent factors? Similarly, why is Esmenet saved?  Do sins only count if you commit them directly?  Does burning Caruthysal not count if you don't hold the torches yourself?

I'm certainly not the God. My *brain* on the hand... And then there's the question of YOUR brain, too.

Um, Kellhus is no baby. (???)

Shrewd observation regarding Kelmomas (I wasn't sure anyone would pick up on the conversation in the tent), though it isn't bicameralism so much as the absence of identity that's the crux.

The Dunyain have vestigial emotions--the paradox is that the Logos actually depends upon it.

The Gods pick whom they Will. I think it becomes more obvious when you look at it through this lens.

Walter

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« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2017, 10:14:30 pm »
Hi Scott, thanks again for answering questions.

Can you tell us what was up with the Old Father ordering the skin spy to preserve Mimara?  Even once we know the 'false prophecy' refers to the misunderstanding about the Anasurimbor returning at the end of the world I'm still not sure why they thought Mimara could prove beneficial to their cause.

TheCulminatingApe

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« Reply #38 on: July 28, 2017, 10:17:44 pm »
Scott, thanks for the time and effort you have spent writing these books. They are like nothing I have ever read before.

In Prince of Nothing, there is a scene where Conphas describes war as intellect, and then later on, another scene where Cnaiur describes war as conviction.  Given this, should we see one of the key themes of the entire Second Apocalypse as a contrast and/or conflict between rationality and faith, and/or their implications?

Many of the words used to describe the in-story concepts have more than one meaning in English. With that in mind, how important to the overall story arc is the spiritual/religious meaning of gnosis?

Should we read anything into the use of the word jihad for the Fanim holy wars?

Are the head-fucking scenes a direct message from the author to the reader? ;)

How much is the Earwa No-God influenced by Karl Barth's concept of the No-God?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 10:37:27 pm by TheCulminatingApe »
Sez who?
Seswatha, that's who.

jurble

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« Reply #39 on: July 28, 2017, 10:33:13 pm »
How should we take the Mutilated's statement that the No-God is the Absolute?   Is it just rhetoric on their part or is the No-God a mechanical device that somehow uses God?  I have thought that the No-God being a device that interacts or uses God in a mechanical manner would be an easy way to explain both how it controls the weapon races (beings without "Free Will") and the Bode (everything with "Free Will" can feel the emanation of Divine Will but aren't suborned to it).

In TTT, Kellhus says the Mangaecca squat, chanting about Aurang's real body to relay him to the Synthese.  But, the Consult's Brain Trust seems to be restricted to just Mek, Shauriatus, Aurang and Aurax (and then the Mutilated).  Were there any other Minds among the Consult for the past 2 millenia or has it just been those four?  If so, given their .. dilapidated status how did Consult programs like breeding the Inversi actually function?  How did they manage it with so little sane manpower? 

How much of the Tekne do the Mutilated understand?  They've attached batteries to a lasergun and fixed a nuke, but is it limited to electrical engineering (which they could understand just by taking things apart and using their big brains) or have they learned any of the fundamentals of physics, chemistry, or biology?

Edit: Is the Chair of Hooks meant to be a device we should recognize and go "Ha! The Inchoroi used a [insert] as a chair!"?  Because I can't figure out what its original purpose was based on its description. 

Edit 2: Kakaliol kills an Erratic and can't find its soul.  Did this poor Erratic actually manage to find Oblivion?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 10:47:20 pm by jurble »

Redeagl

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« Reply #40 on: July 28, 2017, 10:38:08 pm »
Do you have any predictions of when can we expect book 1 of THE NO-GOD series ?
2- still 2 books or a trilogy now?
3- what can you say about Kellhus' role in TSTSNBN?  still a major player?
4- How much metaphysical questions can we expect to be answered in TNG ( feels good saying that)  ?
6-  What is the deal of the Anasūrimbor prophesy?  Didn't Akka's changed dreams hint at Nau-Cayuti being Seswatha's son, how was he the NG 1.0 then?  or did the Mutilated misunderstood it? 
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 11:03:25 pm by Redeagl »
“The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before?”

- Chronicler of the Chroniclers

Redeagl

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« Reply #41 on: July 28, 2017, 10:40:04 pm »
Oh and 5- who was the person who met the Skin Eaters in TJE's prologue?
“The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before?”

- Chronicler of the Chroniclers

jurble

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« Reply #42 on: July 28, 2017, 10:41:06 pm »
Oh and 5- who was the person who met the Skin Eaters in TJE's prologue?

He answered that on page 1, it's just a Ministrate nobody.

Callan S.

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« Reply #43 on: July 28, 2017, 10:41:11 pm »
Interpretative indeterminacy, or what I call 'Crash Space' in my philosophical work, is what this series is ALL about, so if you were expecting a traditional discharging of narrative mysteries, you were bound to be disappointed: the idea is to cue our meaning-making instincts in the absence of any definitive interpretation.

What questions can we ask which wouldn't invalidate to various degrees this goal, Scott?

I mean, we could air our speculations as a fun dialog, but you'd have to act like a player as well and not a DM, otherwise it doesn't really work at a social level. In the face of the dude who knows, speculation dies as magic contacting chorae does.

And let's face it 'Sweet baby Kellhus!' is too funny to be dispelled so glibly!

Also I'll speculate Mim's baby will be two souled/twin hearted/a godthing perception avoider. What would you speculate if you were a player, man?

Edit: Also while I'm sure getting back into raw writing rather than redrafting must be exhilarating, might you continue at TPB in future?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 10:52:47 pm by Callan S. »

Wolfdrop

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« Reply #44 on: July 29, 2017, 12:09:37 am »
Is there any hopes for a further edited Glossary in future printings? While I loved reading it, all the character entries from TTT are lifted with no death dates added and there are loads of things I looked forward to looking up in the Glossary but alas, were nowhere to be found. Some I had hoped for, an entry on the Tall, the Cinderswords.

And is Glimir and Alamir the same sword? It's described as the High-King's sword, spelt as Kelmomas, and matches Glimir's description from TGO.

There's an entry on the finger locking handshake of Boonsmen...but not one on Boonsmen.

It's still my favourite series...that's why I'm so pedantic. ;D