Unholy Consultation - *SUPER SPOILERIFIC*

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Anwurat

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« Reply #120 on: July 31, 2017, 05:15:27 pm »
Thanks for your answer.

If it's not too much to ask, can you clarify anything about Kellhus' vision on the circumfix? The monk and the beast inverted, the woman's hip, the tree, etc., what do those things mean? And was it actually the No-God that spoke to Kellhus on the circumfix or Ajokli?

Woden

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« Reply #121 on: July 31, 2017, 05:21:29 pm »
And the halos? Any clue about them?
Know what your slaves believe, and you will always be their master.

spacemost

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« Reply #122 on: July 31, 2017, 06:24:19 pm »
I believe the Temple Prayer appears at least twice in this book -- does the line "Judge us not according to our trespasses / But according to our temptations" provide any meaningful insight into how salvation and damnation actually function in the world of the novels?

e.g. in the eyes of the gods, would you be better off as a reluctant prostitute than as a lustful but otherwise faithful husband?

C'jara-Cinmoi

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« Reply #123 on: July 31, 2017, 07:31:50 pm »

1. I should not expect Earwa to be perfectly thought out in every respect, since no writer is God, but there seem to be actualized philosophical principles in the world of the Second Apocalypse. Some of them are created by the Tekne (the Inverse Fire and the No-God), some have unknown origin (the Outside, possibly the Judging Eye), and some are sorcerous (Chorae, though I feel only to an extent). This troubles me since there are no real world alternatives to such things, and so I can't relate. Which means any kind of logical reasoning about the nature of the world of Earwa is fundamentally flawed (more than usual), because those are things in themselves, working as you want them to or as needed for the narrative. Could you comment on this issue?

2. In my opinion, there is (after the end of "The Unholy Consult") one and only one undoubtedly heroic character in the Second Apocalypse and that character is Anasurimbor Serwa. She was, of course, by no means perfect, but her intentions and actions (as I see them, and my sight is also by no means perfect) speak for themselves. She followed her father, because she wanted to save the world. She battled the Horde and suffered hardships of the Great Ordeal. She lived through Ishterebinth. She saved Moenghus. She was capable of love, and loved Sorweel. She mourned him when he died. She saved Mimara, Achamian, and Esmenet before attending to her mission, which makes her human as opposed to Kellhus. Oh, and she also killed a dragon with all its retinue. A dragon that kept the entirety of the Great Ordeal at bay. Some people argue that your books are misogynistic. And yet the most heroic character in them is a woman. Are you laughing now? I know I would be, quite evilly so!

1) The incompatibility between meaning (intentionality, in philosopher jargon) and mechanism is the crux from which the whole book hangs: the books simply inherit this incompatibility, exacerbate it with an eye for exploring its texture and implication.

2) A couple evil cackles, here and there. In terms of the extra-textual arguments I made criticizing feminist piety back when, I feel vindicated in a number of different respects. Not only has serious discussion allowed biological differences back to the table, there seems to a growing recognition that the movement needs to fundamentally retool its messaging mechanisms: I've had the strange experience of watching feminists interviewed arguing that the shame tactics so effective in the twentieth century now simply aggravate the problem. That's all for the good, though I fear that progressivism faces almost insurmountable headwinds given the way connectivity empowers extremisms of all stripes. The turn of political events in the US haunts me... to the point of developing a Cassandra complex.

As for the story, Serwa and Mimara were always in the cards, as was the democratization of sexual violence. Since the point was to cue outrage, to trick readers into making the same kinds of snap moral judgments and rationalizations that appall them in the text, I don't look at coming to the conclusion as any kind of moral vindication or ingroup credentializing. The point all along was that rationality flies out the window once our outrage buttons have been pushed, and that this applies universally, which is to say, as readily to liberals as to conservatives.

C'jara-Cinmoi

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« Reply #124 on: July 31, 2017, 07:42:38 pm »
Shrewd observation regarding Kelmomas (I wasn't sure anyone would pick up on the conversation in the tent), though it isn't bicameralism so much as the absence of identity that's the crux.
Does that means he is in some sense like a Sranc? Is that why the Gods can't see him?

Also, can you expand a bit on what is meant by "You realized the Mission was not to master Cause via Logos, but to master Cause via Cause, to endlessly refashion the Near to consume and incorporate the Far." ? Does it mean that more and more elaborated machinery will converge to a self-moving soul?

Bicameralism applies more to the structure of the World and Outside than Kel. I see him as lacking any stable identity, personhood, as opposed to being soulless.

More like converge with a self-moving universe.

C'jara-Cinmoi

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« Reply #125 on: July 31, 2017, 07:48:03 pm »
Will you explore the mechanism that allowed Inaru to reach from the void in a dream and tell Akka about the Consult.

Was it Onkis that told Inaru to run? (the first series seems to have loads of wee interactions that could be interpreted as "god whispers")

What did he find in Uncle Holy Quarters?

The skin-spy with a soul, Old Father Moenghus made him didn't he? So that Maitha could unveil him and gain the mandate trust?

I honestly can't remember well enough to be sure I'm not just bullshitting regarding the first three questions. The thing called Simas, however, is a creature of the Consult.

C'jara-Cinmoi

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« Reply #126 on: July 31, 2017, 07:54:28 pm »

2. C'naiur's fate: I thought this was an obvious case of inverted-ascension (inverted because Ajokli exists across the age, despite his temporal genesis occurring at the end of a frame of existence).

The Most Violent of Men becoming the Prince of Hate was a stunning scene.

But based on other readers' reactions I'm quite alone on that and so, I'm probably wrong about it.
Could you comment on that scene and C'naiur's AE storyline in general?

3. Would you say that Koringhus, Mimara and the Inverse Fire were intended to reveal the veracity of Oblivion, Redemption and Damnation or should readers consider these scenes with suspicion?

I actually have a version of that final Cnaiur scene that's more than twenty years old - it's been baked in since the very beginning. For me, it's always been a kind of bookend for the series, the becoming infernal/geological of the hate that initially preserved him, but leaves him hijacked and blind at the end.

Everything should be viewed with suspicion, but I think it's nice how our end in this world, oblivion, is the most unlikely/ambiguous in the World.

C'jara-Cinmoi

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« Reply #127 on: July 31, 2017, 07:56:23 pm »
Did we see any of the Mutilated in previous books?

Not that I recall, no. I feel muddy on this simply because the original beginning of TDTCB featured a lot more facetime with the brethren.

C'jara-Cinmoi

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« Reply #128 on: July 31, 2017, 07:59:30 pm »
On the Nonmen,  is that the last we will see of them or do the Cunuroi have one final hand to play?

At last! I made past the point where I'm rehearsing lost answers. It's been driving me nuts, constantly going forward, scratching my head, wondering whether I'd already answered these Qs or not.

The Nonmen are far from finished.

C'jara-Cinmoi

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« Reply #129 on: July 31, 2017, 08:02:46 pm »
Is the caged Dnyain a defective? "on a voice like bundled reeds" <- was he in the process of getting his larynx removed when the Consult attacked?

There's countless ways to damage a larnyx with sorcery and Sranc flying around.

C'jara-Cinmoi

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« Reply #130 on: July 31, 2017, 08:09:10 pm »
According to a Google search the epub of the unholy consult was posted on a certain forum on July 7th around 2pm. So yeah, at this point any remotely known book will be pirated on release pretty much. There is really no point trying to stop that.

It's a culture thing, like not littering or farting on elevators. The more one dreads being called a Yar, the fewer Yars there will be. At this point, it's the only thing I can see making a real difference for midlisters. We must condition this ground!

TheCulminatingApe

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« Reply #131 on: July 31, 2017, 08:10:42 pm »

In Prince of Nothing, there is a scene where Conphas describes war as intellect, and then later on, another scene where Cnaiur describes war as conviction.  Given this, should we see one of the key themes of the entire Second Apocalypse as a contrast and/or conflict between rationality and faith, and/or their implications?

Many of the words used to describe the in-story concepts have more than one meaning in English. With that in mind, how important to the overall story arc is the spiritual/religious meaning of gnosis?

Should we read anything into the use of the word jihad for the Fanim holy wars?

Are the head-fucking scenes a direct message from the author to the reader? ;)

How much is the Earwa No-God influenced by Karl Barth's concept of the No-God?

A large part of the project deals with problematizing both rationality and faith in light of their mandatory nature, the fact that we have no bloody choice but to live life through them--as well as how both are bound to ultimately let us down, despite their proximal power.

Both gnosis and jihad plug into the conceptual imaginary of the series in largely retail ways.

As a rewriting writer, you hover over the text too long not to become wicked in some small way.

I've never read a lick of Barths.

Thanks, Scott
Sez who?
Seswatha, that's who.

TheCulminatingApe

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« Reply #132 on: July 31, 2017, 08:12:01 pm »
In TTT, Kellhus says the Mangaecca squat, chanting about Aurang's real body to relay him to the Synthese.  But, the Consult's Brain Trust seems to be restricted to just Mek, Shauriatus, Aurang and Aurax (and then the Mutilated).  Were there any other Minds among the Consult for the past 2 millenia or has it just been those four?  If so, given their .. dilapidated status how did Consult programs like breeding the Inversi actually function?  How did they manage it with so little sane manpower? 

Your second question leads me to believe that pretty much everyone has missed a certain boat, in which case, I can only say, RAFO!


Ark?
Sez who?
Seswatha, that's who.

C'jara-Cinmoi

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« Reply #133 on: July 31, 2017, 08:12:52 pm »

It's time to do what web-comic authors do - stick books on your site for free and sell t-shirts, hats and stickers.  Circumfix bumper stickers will out-number Jesus fish in a few years.  Or instead of Calvin peeing decals, we can have Aurang ejaculating.  The possibilities are endless.

I would sooner shit in my own mouth with my dog's asshole.

Old fashioned that way, I guess. All I know is that the farther thoughts of commerce are from my mind, the sweeter the spice flows.

C'jara-Cinmoi

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« Reply #134 on: July 31, 2017, 08:21:17 pm »
1. Do you have a Patreon? I am aware of other mid and even A-list writers who are using these as a means of securing a stable income between books. It's also an interesting way to let your readers invest in you, as opposed to only consuming that which you produce (I'm not sure if this distinction makes the idea more or less attractive). But I would certainly contribute a few dollars a month if you had one.


My wife mentioned this to me a couple months back and a bolt of terror went up my spine. For whatever reason, self-promotion is indistinguishable from self-hatred for me. It's hard to explain, but I am genuinely ENSLAVED by all this stuff. I've spent decades now, trying to batter and berate myself into a more 'well rounded' human, but now that I've turned 50, I've resigned myself to being honest to my two-dimensional nature, and just to write whatever must be written.