[TUC Spoilers]Decapitant, Baby or his own Niché

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H

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« Reply #45 on: January 16, 2018, 02:39:37 pm »
The whole of what we assume to be Kellhus' plan is changed for this to make sense. Rather than trying to save humanity or really do anything with Earwa, we need to assume that his goal was to get to the outside, and perhaps his hope was actually to seal Ajokli into the World, via the sarcophagus or by the eventual success of the Consult sealing the world.

Well, what we have makes little sense anyway.  It seems that Kellhus is trying to save Eärwa by selling it out to Ajokli.  We have to either believe he intended to try to trick the trickster, or that he was genuinely going to just sell the world down the river.

I'm not sure what the point of him doing anything is though if he intended to take the latter path though.  Why not just exit the world and not be bothered?
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

Wilshire

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« Reply #46 on: January 16, 2018, 02:47:53 pm »
I'm not sure what the point of him doing anything is though if he intended to take the latter path though.  Why not just exit the world and not be bothered?

For the reason you pointed out, he needs Ajokli removed as he wouldn't be able to contend with him anymore than he could defeat 5 dunyain and 100 chorae skinspies by himself. Less so , probably. The whole thing would have been a gambit to remove Ajokli and buy himself time to become strong enough to either defeat him outright or to seal him away permanently. From there, he'd conquer the rest of the Outside somehow and become the God of Gods.

Assailing the Outside isn't something that can be done overnight. Maybe, for those that still want Kellhus to be the good guy, his plan was to eventually 'come back' and save the world.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

TLEILAXU

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« Reply #47 on: January 16, 2018, 03:04:49 pm »
The whole of what we assume to be Kellhus' plan is changed for this to make sense. Rather than trying to save humanity or really do anything with Earwa, we need to assume that his goal was to get to the outside, and perhaps his hope was actually to seal Ajokli into the World, via the sarcophagus or by the eventual success of the Consult sealing the world.

Well, what we have makes little sense anyway.  It seems that Kellhus is trying to save Eärwa by selling it out to Ajokli.  We have to either believe he intended to try to trick the trickster, or that he was genuinely going to just sell the world down the river.

I'm not sure what the point of him doing anything is though if he intended to take the latter path though.  Why not just exit the world and not be bothered?
From the reddit ama:
Quote
Kellhus's endgame was to prevent Resumption and save the World. He knew something was amiss, and that the closer he came to Golgotterath the more amiss it became, but he, ultimately, was every bit as blind as we are to the darkness that comes before.
Kellhus simply didn't see Ajokli coming.

Wilshire

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« Reply #48 on: January 16, 2018, 03:17:40 pm »
I get that Tleilaxu - thanks for the quote btw - but to go down that path we need a whole different set of assumptions. We've got 3+ rabbit holes here that all require a specific set of starting conditions to enter. Bakker's comments provide a whole new backdrop that hasn't been discussed - not in this post at least.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

SmilerLoki

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« Reply #49 on: January 16, 2018, 11:17:12 pm »
I get that Tleilaxu - thanks for the quote btw - but to go down that path we need a whole different set of assumptions. We've got 3+ rabbit holes here that all require a specific set of starting conditions to enter. Bakker's comments provide a whole new backdrop that hasn't been discussed - not in this post at least.
It's because my post was made before the AMA.

Wilshire

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« Reply #50 on: January 17, 2018, 01:19:28 pm »
I get that Tleilaxu - thanks for the quote btw - but to go down that path we need a whole different set of assumptions. We've got 3+ rabbit holes here that all require a specific set of starting conditions to enter. Bakker's comments provide a whole new backdrop that hasn't been discussed - not in this post at least.
It's because my post was made before the AMA.
Right. Nothing wrong with it, we just haven't gotten there yet (in this post).

A lot of these topics require very explicit assumptions and end up at very different conclusions. There seems to be a lot of talking past each other because of this, since people tend to think that everyone's on the same page. More often than not, I don't think that's the case - which is unfortunate because a lot of good discussion gets missed in the confusion. Just trying to facilitate :)
One of the other conditions of possibility.

MSJ

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« Reply #51 on: January 17, 2018, 10:06:13 pm »
Quote from:  Wilshire
A lot of these topics require very explicit assumptions and end up at very different conclusions. There seems to be a lot of talking past each other because of this, since people tend to think that everyone's on the same page. More often than not, I don't think that's the case - which is unfortunate because a lot of good discussion gets missed in the confusion. Just trying to facilitate :)

Kellhus is dead but not done, is that the comment your referring too? Please elaborate Wilshire. I haven't reread the thread (sorry), I'd just like to know where your confusion/frustration is coming in? That's al.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

SmilerLoki

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« Reply #52 on: January 17, 2018, 11:59:31 pm »
Right. Nothing wrong with it, we just haven't gotten there yet (in this post).

A lot of these topics require very explicit assumptions and end up at very different conclusions. There seems to be a lot of talking past each other because of this, since people tend to think that everyone's on the same page. More often than not, I don't think that's the case - which is unfortunate because a lot of good discussion gets missed in the confusion. Just trying to facilitate :)
No, no, it's completely fine! Just marking my page number, so to speak.