[TUC Spoilers] Shauriatas

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Swayal Serpent

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« on: July 31, 2017, 05:46:35 pm »
He's been touched on in other threads, but I thought Shae deserved one of his own to discuss his role (or lack thereof) in TUC. Personally I was quite disappointed with his offscreen demise. He was a very powerful sorcerer and very clever as well, I was really hoping he would have something to do in TUC. The mutilated mention that Shae was the only Consult member that stood against them, and that's why they killed him. Why would Shae refuse when all the other consult joined? That being said, I actually kind of feel bad for him. Hes spent 3,000 years trying to escape damnnation, and just when things are starting to look good for him, some Dunyain come along and squash him like a bug, sending him to the outside that he dreaded so much

Bolivar

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« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2017, 06:12:04 pm »


That being said, I actually kind of feel bad for him. Hes spent 3,000 years trying to escape damnnation, and just when things are starting to look good for him, some Dunyain come along and squash him like a bug, sending him to the outside that he dreaded so much

Ha, I feel the same way. I always assumed with The False Sun and the chapter excerpt that went out so many years ago that Shauriatas was being built up into this mythic figure that would have a huge role to play in the Unholy Consult.

Part of my disappointment stems from the contrast with the Prince of Nothing.  You're told all this time you're going to meet Moenghus  and then at the end you do, it's awesome, with all these lengthy passages. Here, the Consult members we've been obsessing over are only briefly seen until these random guys come out behind the curtain and even then we only get these small 60 second bursts of plot with them.

Baztek

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« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2017, 06:56:35 pm »
Definitely the weakest part of the books. Shauri's little larva wheel is some of the most unique horror imagery I've ever read but nope, 7 books of the euphoric dunyain enlightened by their own intelligence wasn't enough, we gotta have them infiltrate the Consult too.

The dunyain wore out their schtick quick, we don't need demonstrations of their power every time someone sneezes in Ishual's direction. Just a shame, man.

Somnambulist

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« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2017, 09:47:37 pm »
The mutilated mention that Shae was the only Consult member that stood against them, and that's why they killed him. Why would Shae refuse when all the other consult joined?

Shaeonanra actually answers this question himself in The False Sun.  The reason he wanted Titirga dead was because, if he had come over to the Consult, Shae would not be top dog anymore.  Titirga, being the badass he was, would have usurped Shae in a heartbeat.  Shae's ego wouldn't have that, so down Titirga went.  History repeating itself with the Dunyain.  You know, that old chestnut.
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jurble

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« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2017, 10:05:05 pm »
Shae is right there, he's the Mutilated.  He resisted and they lost.

Dunkelheit

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« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2017, 10:20:58 pm »
Jurbel makes his case a little better in another thread.

Here's a crackpot question:

Are the Mutilated Shauriatus?  They all talk one-by-one and Shae's original Wretches apparently only function because they're 'shorn of passion' and what better way to describe Dunyain?  So, Shauriatus alone resisted and Shauriatus won.  The scene is a pantomime on Shae's part, flattering Kellhus' Dunyain vanity (of course the Dunyain took over the Consult).

Its a cool theory, but I don't buy it.

Also, I actually thought the Dunsolt reveal was awesome, but I never invested much energy in thinking about Shae either so.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 10:23:36 pm by Dunkelheit »

jurble

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« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2017, 10:27:03 pm »
The only reason I even considered it is because Bakker says everyone apparently missed something about the Consult, especially given how we're all mocking how stupid and decrepit the original members are.  So after pondering it for a few hours, my conclusion is that Shae wasn't stupid or decrepit.   That's the subversion of expectations.  The readers, all of us, saw Aurang, Aurax and Mek and assumed Shae was one of them - dumb and basically useless.  We saw the Dunyain and we assumed they were as capable as Kellhus - as did Kellhus himself. 

Quote
lie, and the Truth spoke with but one soul.

Bakker, R. Scott. The Unholy Consult: Book Four of the Aspect-Emperor series (Aspect Emperor 4) (Kindle Location 7184). Little, Brown Book Group. Kindle Edition.

This is a pun...
« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 10:39:46 pm by jurble »

Somnambulist

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« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2017, 10:41:02 pm »
Fuck, I never even thought of that.
No whistling on the slog!

boneclinkz

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« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2017, 10:44:22 pm »
Shae is right there, he's the Mutilated.  He resisted and they lost.

This is good. He preserved himself using "denuded souls" in the Larvals.

Dunyain could accurately be described as such.

Baztek

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« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2017, 10:49:14 pm »
What honestly changes though? So shae beat out the dunyain who are now shae... okay so? Feels like we're back to where we started.

jurble

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« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2017, 10:56:15 pm »
What honestly changes though? So shae beat out the dunyain who are now shae... okay so? Feels like we're back to where we started.

Wasn't your complaint that the Dunyain are OP and you're sick of them?  The point is that the Dunyain lost.  They're dead, gone-zo.  The Five then Four Mutilated aren't Dunyain.  They're Shaeonanra, the most intelligent and evil guy in the history of Earwa, who now possesses the mental faculties of four living supercomputers. 

Baztek

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« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2017, 11:07:51 pm »
Yeah I guess that's pretty savage but my point is the theory smells like a contrivance after-the-fact, the Dunyain were effectively dead until... we're introduced to the dunyain who we have to connect the dots aren't really dunyain so that we can finally confirm the dunyain are, in fact, dead. It's just idk, man, kinda loopy.

jurble

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« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2017, 11:14:19 pm »
Well, even if the Mutilated aren't Shae, the fact that the Dunyain survived and joined the Consult shouldn't be considered a contrivance.  It was a fairly common theory until TGO, in fact.  Even when Akka and Mimara came to the destroyed Ishual, the idea that the Dunyain were enslaved and taken to the Ark was a common hypothesis put forward.  This theory died down when we met the Survivor, since his description didn't indicate the Consult had any goals other than extermination.

Swayal Serpent

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« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2017, 11:46:18 pm »
The mutilated mention that Shae was the only Consult member that stood against them, and that's why they killed him. Why would Shae refuse when all the other consult joined?

Shaeonanra actually answers this question himself in The False Sun.  The reason he wanted Titirga dead was because, if he had come over to the Consult, Shae would not be top dog anymore.  Titirga, being the badass he was, would have usurped Shae in a heartbeat.  Shae's ego wouldn't have that, so down Titirga went.  History repeating itself with the Dunyain.  You know, that old chestnut.

Your absolutely right, I didn't think of that. But even so, it seems that if you've been alive for 3000 years, doing anything and everything in your power to avoid death because it is literally the worst thing that could ever happen to you, that you would probably back the big dogs if you had too. In fact it seems that the presence of the Dunyain was a major boone to the Consults machinations, and really would have been benificial to Shae. Ah well, I guess even after 3000 years, Shauriatas still couldn't swallow his pride

Swayal Serpent

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« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2017, 11:49:39 pm »
Shae is right there, he's the Mutilated.  He resisted and they lost.

Woah, that's an awesome theory, never even crossed my mind. But iirc, Kellhus killed one of the mutilated. Obviously we know very little about soul trapping, but wouldn't destroying one of the bodies cause a major problem, if not outright kill the soul inhabiting it? I really have nothing to base that on, but I don't see any reason to have 5 host boddies unless all are necessary. But I love that theory, though it seems very unlikely, I hope its true