[TUC Spoilers] Shauriatas

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The Sharmat

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« Reply #90 on: August 05, 2017, 12:56:37 am »
The fact that it's the unscarred one that gives the exact count of days for the fall of Ishušl makes me think even more that he joined the Consult before the others.

themerchant

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« Reply #91 on: August 05, 2017, 03:27:58 am »
When the hologram of shae as we know him from Akka's dream descends it speaks with 5 voices, which may or may not mean the 5 dunyain.

TheCulminatingApe

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« Reply #92 on: August 05, 2017, 02:43:14 pm »
The thing I kept wondering when seeing the Mutilated was, why are they, all but one, mutilated?

All of these possibilities seem reasonable, but they don't answer the question of why just one of them isn't scarred. Here's one answer that works for all three possibilities: the unscarred one is Shauriatis, or was Shauriatis once.


This could be right.  Note, of all the Dunyain that we see outside Ishual. they all are, or end up physically damaged in some way (Moenghus blind, Koringhus a 'grotesquerie', the kid with the crab hand, the four 'mutilated' Mutilated), with two exceptions - Kellhus and the unscarred one.  Which may imply some plot significance.
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Madness

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« Reply #93 on: August 06, 2017, 01:04:13 pm »
...

Welcome to the Second Apocalypse, OntaSensitiveCone. I really like the corresponding avatar graph 8).

So...new plan.  We ALL go to Zaudunyanicon, corner the man and make.  Him.  Tell.

I already told old Brandon Sanderson that if he doesn't step it up with his Stormlight Archive writing pace I was gonna have to start leaving poops in his mail box.  Bakker can get the same treatment, just in person.  Seven books is long enough.  Time for some strait answers.

Long shot here, but anybody own a polygraph machine?

Wild guess but I'm fairly sure Bakker can beat a polygraph.

Also, everyone should come to Zaudunyanicon as much as, despite my efforts, it all solidified much later than intended.
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Cynical Cat

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« Reply #94 on: August 06, 2017, 07:11:28 pm »
Polygraph's are really unreliable.  What they actually detect is stress and nervousness so they're fairly good at spotting lies but they also generate a lot of false positives.  There's good reasons why they are not admissible in court.

fecklessfool

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« Reply #95 on: August 06, 2017, 07:14:26 pm »
Did the Mutilated speak in a circular sequence?

The Sharmat

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« Reply #96 on: August 06, 2017, 07:20:32 pm »
Yeah they're awful. People with certain personality disorders are also prone to giving false negatives since they respond to lying differently.

Sadly some courts are now admitting neural imaging, which is even less reliable at the moment. Neurologists keep telling them no but apparently legal standards of truth and scientific one are entirely different.

Did the Mutilated speak in a circular sequence?
Yes, but it could just as easily be Dunyain being able to read each other. They're not going to have trouble avoiding talking over each other.

fecklessfool

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« Reply #97 on: August 06, 2017, 08:42:43 pm »
Well I was thinking more of a soul passing going through the loop in one direction. Will see if I can check whether one can trace the speaking sequence of the Mutilated, like if it's always no eyelids guy that follows no scars guy or something like that.

Dez

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« Reply #98 on: August 07, 2017, 12:26:07 am »
I'm on board with the Shae theory because the Mutilated themselves talk of subsuming rather than conquest. If they killed Shae and dominated the other three like they said, that's only subsuming in the most technical sense. Aurax, Aurang and Mek are all in various states of decrepitude. Not the kind of change of management that you would correct someone from calling a "conquest".

Subsume suggests a give and take. The Mutilated can be the new backbone of the Consult while at the same time having to suffer the presence of Shae as someone they can't get rid of because of same weakness of spirit that left Kellhus susceptible to Ajokli.

OntaSensitiveCone

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« Reply #99 on: August 09, 2017, 03:56:45 pm »
I think we can go one step further w.r.t. the idea of "subsuming". When the DŻnsult talk about this, their phrasing is interesting; they do not say "We subsumed the Consult." or "We subsumed the DŻnyain." Instead they say just "We subsumed." I think the idea is that an uncareful reader will see "We [, the DŻnyain,] subsumed [the Consult]." My impression was that it should be read as "We [, the Consult and the DŻnyain,] subsumed [each other]."

TwoMinutesToApocalypse

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« Reply #100 on: August 10, 2017, 03:42:04 am »
I'm a little disappointed that I didn't get to see the real Shauriatis in all his macabre glory.  The hologram was still great and it took me a while to get it.  A lot of you guys definitely have a better grasp on these books that me and I could buy into the theory that Shauriatis and the Dunyain merged.  The use of thee word 'subsumed' means that the Consult, their ideas, and by extension Shauriatis were absorbed into a greater whole.   I'm not going to buy into any theories until I read the actual book. 

I hope that TUC is not the last we get to see of Shauriatis. Whatever form he takes in the future had better be more depraved that what we've seen in the dream and the hologram.  ShaeŲnanra is great and I just want some weirdness.

Madness

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« Reply #101 on: August 11, 2017, 12:03:40 pm »
Polygraph's are really unreliable. What they actually detect is stress and nervousness so they're fairly good at spotting lies but they also generate a lot of false positives.  There's good reasons why they are not admissible in court.

Yeah they're awful. People with certain personality disorders are also prone to giving false negatives since they respond to lying differently.

Sadly some courts are now admitting neural imaging, which is even less reliable at the moment. Neurologists keep telling them no but apparently legal standards of truth and scientific one are entirely different.

One of my favorite courses in school was Forensic Psychology and the bolded quotes are both scary true. If I thought I could talk to high-scoring individuals on Hare's PCL-R for any length of time without feeling like a prey, I would have pursued FP.
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Duskweaver

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« Reply #102 on: August 11, 2017, 02:53:08 pm »
If you really want to destroy your faith in the criminal justice system, read 'The Invisible Gorilla' by Chris Chabris and Dan Simons. Even plain old witness testimony can be horrifically unreliable.

(This isn't directed to Madness, incidentally, since IIRC he's already read it.)
"Then I looked, and behold, a Whirlwind came out of the North..." - Ezekiel 1:4

"Two things that brand one a coward: using violence when it is not necessary; and shrinking from it when it is."

Woden

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« Reply #103 on: August 11, 2017, 03:16:05 pm »
Do you want to utterly destroy your faith in the legal system? just work some years as a lawyer as myself.
Know what your slaves believe, and you will always be their master.

SmilerLoki

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« Reply #104 on: August 11, 2017, 07:10:31 pm »
Do you want to utterly destroy your faith in the legal system? just work some years as a lawyer as myself.
Sorry, what faith in the legal system...?