[TUC Spoiler] Heron Spear?

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H

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« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2017, 11:39:58 am »
The Leash and the Knife, plus the fallout at Dagliash, aren't passable without some losses - though damn if the Sranc in the Celmomas Dream in TGO and No-God 2.0 taking out the Ordeal with Sranc don't remind me of the amazing feats of ants.

I've heard that the Glossary mentions Cnaiur and the Scylvendi fucking up Atrithau's forces. The Lonely City seems certain to finally fall to the Great Ruiner...

Hmm...

It's all on Zeűm and the Xiuhianni now man.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasűrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

The Sharmat

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« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2017, 07:22:45 pm »
Zeum actually already has Sranc on its northern border according to Zoronga.



Zeum.

The Osthwai Mountains although the eastern end presents problems.

Back through the Gates to Eanna or through Jekk.

Nilnamesh.

Okay i'm done. Zeum seems the only safe option but realistically mountains don't seem to present problems for Sranc as the Yimaleti was described as their mother/cradle or something.

The Sranc can live in mountains just fine, that doesn't mean that they're good terrain for them to fight on.  The Bronzemen of Far Antiquity enjoyed considerable success against the Sranc of the Yimaleti until they were disbanded.

The Leash and the Knife, plus the fallout at Dagliash, aren't passable without some losses - though damn if the Sranc in the Celmomas Dream in TGO and No-God 2.0 taking out the Ordeal with Sranc don't remind me of the amazing feats of ants.
Deliberate. This is absolutely how someone would design an intelligent bioweapon.

I've heard that the Glossary mentions Cnaiur and the Scylvendi fucking up Atrithau's forces. The Lonely City seems certain to finally fall to the Great Ruiner...

Hmm...
It does. The heirless king of Atrithau is said to have died in battle with Cnaiür's Scylvendi horde.

TwoMinutesToApocalypse

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« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2017, 01:42:13 am »
Did we ever get a good description of what happened to this red Heron Spear?  I just remember Kellhus dropping it and it dangling from a chain.  Am I remembering that right?  Is is just hanging off the spearman's perch on the remains of the Canted Horn?  Were there any follow up passages about it I missed?  Or is it lost to history again?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 11:08:10 pm by TwoMinutesToApocalypse »

The Sharmat

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« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2017, 03:37:33 am »
Kellhus dropped it when Aurang tackled him IIRC. It's probably smashed on the base of the Upright Horn somewhere.

Cynical Cat

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« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2017, 10:19:39 am »
Depends on how heavy the "coffer" is and how strong the cable is.  It's possible that it is dangling off the Upright Horn.

TwoMinutesToApocalypse

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« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2017, 11:08:52 pm »
Kellhus dropped it when Aurang tackled him IIRC. It's probably smashed on the base of the Upright Horn somewhere.

That's what I remember, but I also vaguely remember something about it still being attached to something when he dropped it.

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« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2017, 03:57:38 am »
It does. The heirless king of Atrithau is said to have died in battle with Cnaiür's Scylvendi horde.

Weird... wasn't the king of Atrithau at the time of the First Holy War also heir-less? Really makes me think that Skin-Spies have been ruling Atrithau for time.

Though I suppose that could have been fabricated hearsay on Conphas/Sarcellus the Second's part.
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The Sharmat

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« Reply #37 on: August 09, 2017, 04:13:45 am »
It's the same guy.

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« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2017, 04:23:31 am »
Ah. See, I really need to finish reading the canon artifact and explore the Expanded Glossary.
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Wilshire

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« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2019, 03:57:25 pm »
It's the Sun Lance.

What happened to the Heron spear is a mystery. However, if the No-God 2.0 doesn't have chorae on the carapace I don't think the "good" guys would need it anymore to destroy it, no?

You know, I actually took the no Chorae in the modified Carapace to be an upgrade by the Mutilated. It's been long assumed by a number of readers that the reason for the Chorae aren't for sorcerous protection but rather to perform some other function (soul-containment, whathaveyou, etc). It might follow that that's why Shauriatas was such important part of the Consult - besides breaking the Barricades - because their cabal didn't have the strictly Tekne know-how to start up the No-God. That Shauriatas jury rigged it to work with his sorcerous knowledge the first time.

By my reading, I interpreted the lack of Chorae to mean that the No-God functions better this time around.

This thought regarding Chorae and The Barricades brought about this thought:
It seems the Barricades must have been immune to the effects of Chorae. Otherwise, any bloke wearing a Chorae would be able to see the place and walk right up to it.

The existence of magic that is simply immune to chorae's interesting, given that the Chorae is explained throughout as the ultimate foil.

However it could be that The Architect was using a special kind of meta-god-gnostic fused magic to create his artifacts, and that his death brought an end to the possibility of such things. This very much recalls the fact that the genocide of every Cisharium was absolutely necessary for plot reasons. In both cases, you just can't have Magic that breaks all rules and has no limitations, and still have any kind of cogent story.
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SmilerLoki

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« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2019, 05:32:09 pm »
However it could be that The Architect was using a special kind of meta-god-gnostic fused magic to create his artifacts, and that his death brought an end to the possibility of such things. This very much recalls the fact that the genocide of every Cisharium was absolutely necessary for plot reasons. In both cases, you just can't have Magic that breaks all rules and has no limitations, and still have any kind of cogent story.
All of Emilidis's artifacts are explicitly immune to Chorae, and one way to achieve that is outlined. It involves making a soul-infused object that constantly casts and recasts its sorcery, battling the effect of Chorae.

I think it's even mentioned that Emilidis used more evolved techniques than that, though.

Also, what Chorae do is a technique of sorcery, they don't straight up negate it, the use weaknesses of sorcerous paradigms to dismantle its manifestations (like Cants). It stands to reason that a technique like that can be battled by a more sophisticated use of sorcery, one that strengthens its principles beyond what's vulnerable to Chorae. To follow up on that thought, possible uses of Aporos that are more robust than Chorae might be out there, too.

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« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2019, 05:37:04 pm »
Lol, dragged me in momentarily.

After TUC and the Expanded Glossary, the evidence suggests that Emilidis is missing or dead and he was trying obsessively to create a Markless/Sorcerous Artifact? Also, that he was exocommunicated from a Mansion at some point for his work? (The latter assertion I'm less sure about.)
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SmilerLoki

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« Reply #42 on: June 10, 2019, 05:42:59 pm »
And then the cunny-loving dragon asserts that he devoured Emilidis. Who, additionally, "was cunny", whatever that's supposed to mean.

Wilshire

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« Reply #43 on: June 10, 2019, 06:05:31 pm »
And then the cunny-loving dragon asserts that he devoured Emilidis. Who, additionally, "was cunny", whatever that's supposed to mean.
I think the centipede dragon probably spent too much time hanging out with sranc and inchoroi. "Cunny" just being used either because it makes people uncomfortable, or as a simple synonym for "meat".

All of Emilidis's artifacts are explicitly immune to Chorae, and one way to achieve that is outlined. It involves making a soul-infused object that constantly casts and recasts its sorcery, battling the effect of Chorae.
"Artifact" to me recalls a physical object, though I guess not necessarily. The Barricades are more interesting in this case, compared to an object, since there is nothing to infuse a soul into? Either way, a force field immune to sorcery, and chorae, would have been a nice Ward for any schoolmen/quya to know - again the point mostly being such things would ruin the story.

I think it's even mentioned that Emilidis used more evolved techniques than that, though.
Meta-god-gnostic fusion ;)

Also, what Chorae do is a technique of sorcery, they don't straight up negate it, the use weaknesses of sorcerous paradigms to dismantle its manifestations (like Cants). It stands to reason that a technique like that can be battled by a more sophisticated use of sorcery, one that strengthens its principles beyond what's vulnerable to Chorae. To follow up on that thought, possible uses of Aporos that are more robust than Chorae might be out there, too.
Not sure this is a cause-effect chain that makes sense.
The Aporos is a branch of sorcery, from which Chorae come. Chorae themselves though are the metaphysical opposite of magic, so I'm not sure describing it as a "technique of sorcery" makes sense. Admitedly, the whole thing is very confusing to me, and Bakker's words on the subject only serve to make things worse.

That said, Chorae are physical objects with runes inscribed in/on them to power them (apparently). I'm guessing this means if the runes are marred or damaged enough, it becomes a hunk of metal/stone rather than a localized-sorcerer-salting-anti-magic-field. Runes themselves pose an interesting problem for sorcery to me, as the usage of magic seems to tired practitioners at some level (kellhus tired post meta-gnosis exertions, Akka complains about holding the Light in TJE). Something, I assume Souls, need to power magic.

And on runes and Aporos, how would a chorae work. I wonder if it creates spherical shells of influence, and inside a chorae is at least 1 other layer of magic. A runed layer that holds magic, a soul, whatever, the thing that actually powers the no-field, and then an outer shell that has runes which describe the effects of the field. The two layers magically insulated , or magical forces facing opposite direction to keep them from canceling each other out.

Perhaps this type of layering is what led to the original No-God sarcophagus design, but Dunyain wisdom coming up with a more clever solution that didn't require chorae...

Lol, dragged me in momentarily.

After TUC and the Expanded Glossary, the evidence suggests that Emilidis is missing or dead and he was trying obsessively to create a Markless/Sorcerous Artifact? Also, that he was exocommunicated from a Mansion at some point for his work? (The latter assertion I'm less sure about.)
Yeah the Nonmen in general were not to keen on Aporostic(?) practices.
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« Reply #44 on: June 10, 2019, 06:17:39 pm »
And then the cunny-loving dragon asserts that he devoured Emilidis. Who, additionally, "was cunny", whatever that's supposed to mean.

I never really did get the fan frustration with this. I doubt very much Bakker has spent any time on 4chan or its siblings variants.

Otherwise, there's a glossary entry or an interaction with Sorweel or Oinaral or some such that suggests Emilidis might just be MIA in the world.

Yeah the Nonmen in general were not to keen on Aporostic(?) practices.

Which I'm still interested in given Mimara's "miracle" against the Wight (I also really don't understand why people seem to think Mimara's first Chorae was "special"). I thought it pretty evident that she would see all Chorae as such with the Eye.
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