[TUC Spoilers] Thoughts post-AMA slog/Unholy Consultation thread

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Walter

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« Reply #60 on: August 04, 2017, 06:25:23 pm »
To the degree that anyone was.

I think Aurang's plan was, basically:

1: I sit on the Upright Horn while the Great Ordeal wrecks lower Golgotterath.  I am safe because no one in the Ordeal can fly up here, and I'm out of reach of cants.
2: The Backup Horde attacks and kills them all while I jerk off.

He only took personal action when Kellhus got the spear and destroyed the Canted Horn.  He had to, at that point.  He is the only one who can get to Kellhus, and he has to do it before he decides to chop down the Upright Horn the same way.

Fighting a stronger wizard who could use teleportation to match his flight was never part of the plan, but he couldn't get away after he jump scared Kellhus into dropping the Spear.

MSJ

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« Reply #61 on: August 04, 2017, 07:18:53 pm »
What struck me and i have a hard time of making sense of, is the gradual possession of Kellhus via Ajokli. That he didn't know this would happen. Its hard for me to wrap my head around that, i mean he made a pact. I would love to know what that pact truly entailed. I would so love for Bakker to give us a conical through Kellhus of all the events post-PoN. That would be great.
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WeAreProyas

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« Reply #62 on: August 04, 2017, 08:14:52 pm »
A few thoughts:

At the beginning of The Fellowship of the Ring Frodo and Gandalf go back and forth about the fact that Bilbo did not stab Gollum when he had the opportunity to do so.  Bilbo's act of compassion eventually allows Gollum to redeem Middle Earth after the Ring masters Frodo at Amon Amarth (awesome band, by the way).  I think RSB considers himself one of Papa Tolkien's most rebellious sons, so if an act of compassion redeemed Middle Earth it's not surprising that an act of compassion should damn Earwa.  (And little Kel is a bit of a Gollum.)


This connection is exactly what I first thought about when reading the end of TUC. That moment of confusion by Kellhus/Ajokli when Kel gets stuffed into the sarcophagus is just the kind of WTF moment Sauron must have felt when Gollum claimed the ring.

Gollum fixation on the ring is also a good match for Kel's obsession for his mother.

I am still in that neverland of confusion that Bakker wants us to reside in on the question of good/bad Kellhus, or just good/bad in general. So I am not extending the analogy to Kellhus equals Sauron.

PS. My first post after a lifetime of being a Skin-Spy lurker.

The Sharmat

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« Reply #63 on: August 04, 2017, 10:11:29 pm »
Very debatable.  Likaro seems to have been the primary proponent of Zeum not taking Kellhus seriously, which kept their forces out of the disastrous debacle of the Great Ordeal.  If so, he may actually be a hero in terms of his impact on the plausibility of civilization surviving.

I don't understand why you are reading the AMA if you like it less than the book with mysteries intact.  Seems like you should stop visiting those threads/boards and enjoy the book the way you prefer.
I'm not reading those threads or going to reddit but if I want to discuss the series I can't escape it since other people are. I think it also speaks poorly of his plotting.

Madness

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« Reply #64 on: August 04, 2017, 11:16:46 pm »
Likaro did nothing wrong.

Well, he and Malowebi seem to be involved in some diplomatic power struggle for First Negotiant in Zeum. Likaro seems to have manufactured the circumstances which see Malowebi sent as Ambassador to Fanayal. Likaro seems to poison and guile for prestige where Malowebi seems to be our Zeumi Achamian.

As I said, it could go either way with Bakker. Likaro's either going to the ass Malowebi sees him as or he's going to be a great guy ;).

I am always late to these things. I wanted to ask what Shattered the God in the first place. Though I imagine that one will be eternally unknowable.

There was nothing else around when the God was unshattered TO shatter it, right?  It is a whodunnit with only one suspect.

It definitely seems to evoke and validate the piece of Fanim perspective we have regarding the Solitary God in the opening epigraph of TGO.

it's clear as day the God shattering is none other than the creation of reality/subject-object/consciousness, to this day I have no idea how people think it's as banal and uninspired as "nonmen did it"

Lol, there are a number of types of creation myths. That isn't even an exhaustive list.

What struck me and i have a hard time of making sense of, is the gradual possession of Kellhus via Ajokli. That he didn't know this would happen. Its hard for me to wrap my head around that, i mean he made a pact. I would love to know what that pact truly entailed. I would so love for Bakker to give us a conical through Kellhus of all the events post-PoN. That would be great.

Unless you attribute that pact talk to Ajokli instead of Kellhus.

PS. My first post after a lifetime of being a Skin-Spy lurker.

Welcome to the Second Apocalypse, WAP. What an inspired username 8).
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Baztek

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« Reply #65 on: August 04, 2017, 11:26:24 pm »
The credence Bakker has given to the Fanim (the Psukhe bearing no mark, Fane calling the demonic nature of the Hundred, Meppa being all-around one of the wokest in-universe characters in the series), especially with putting that epigraph in the beginning of TGO, and with how philosophically milquetoast the alternative is ("it was the nonmen in the time before time with the candlestick"), it's pretty clear the God shattered "itself".

The only reason I don't buy the Fanim perspective on things 100% is that Mimara is seeing through to something that is somehow both the void of the Solitary God and a transcendent being of light

Madness

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« Reply #66 on: August 06, 2017, 12:37:43 pm »
The only reason I don't buy the Fanim perspective on things 100% is that Mimara is seeing through to something that is somehow both the void of the Solitary God and a transcendent being of light

Well, I'll leave it to the Cüréthañs of the forum to figure out the distinctions but as a Fanim-proponent, I don't discount that Mimara's Judging Eye, Inri Sejenus' abstract God-of-Gods, and the Fanim Solitary God might in fact be the same thing.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 12:39:48 pm by Madness »
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jurble

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« Reply #67 on: August 07, 2017, 12:26:45 am »
Yeah, it's not impossible God is both immanent and transcendent, especially when you toss in a bit of omnipotence.

Madness

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« Reply #68 on: August 07, 2017, 01:58:54 am »
Indeed :).
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