[Spoilers TUC & AMA] The No-god versus the Outside

  • 5 Replies
  • 1433 Views

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Crtha

  • *
  • Moderator Extraordinaire
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Pendulous Fallacy
  • Posts: 772
  • Wizard IRL
    • View Profile
« on: August 05, 2017, 02:04:49 am »
So, a point of contention with various speculations I have raised involves how the No-god seals the Outside. Mostly the point is raised that only the No-god is invisible to the Hundred and that the 144k point probably needs to be reached before the Outside is sealed.

In the recent AMA a very relevant question and answer arose.

Quote
Q. Has Resumption bared the rest of the Hundred from interfering in the real world?

A. The Gods are pretty much witless now. Imagine a virus erasing your memories and your meta-memories simultaneously. Theological Alzheimers.

Some implications that I have inferred:

All the meaning that souls relay back to the Outside is sealed off whilst Mog walks and that the gods are completely blind and starved.

The way Topoi and the Boundaries of the Onta are described indicates that the stuff of meaning piles up with the course of history, but now it seems the reflection of that into the Outside is blocked.

Ajokli's incarnation through Cnaiur (and the Celmoman prophecy itself) indicates that the Trickster has managed to remain puissant. (Both of these God powered acts occur during Apocalypse)

Because sorcery still functions we can derive that the Outside can be accessed/manipulated from this side of the world.


Your thoughts?

[EDIT Madness: Title.]
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 01:28:53 pm by Madness »
Retracing his bloody footprints, the Wizard limped on.

Madness

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Conversational Batman
  • Posts: 5224
  • Strength on the Journey - Journey Well
    • View Profile
    • The Second Apocalypse
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2017, 12:51:18 pm »
I'm of the opinion that the Gods can still express agency in the world as they have but that they can't perceive the No-God specifically, analogous to Kellhus/his chillens inability to pierce Yatwer's Mask.

Aside - I suppose - it seems to me that Earwa operates as per Socrates' Great Pool of Souls analogy in Phaedo and the No-God interrupts the reentry of souls into the World (and possibly succeeds the Pool of Souls as per the "Black Heaven calling" notation).
The Existential Scream
Weaponizing the Warrior Pose - Declare War Inwardly
carnificibus: multus sanguis fluit
Die Better
The Theory-Killer

Wilshire

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Enshoiya
  • Posts: 5766
  • One of the other conditions of possibility
    • View Profile
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2018, 07:28:41 pm »
My thought would be that Bakker's comment makes little sense.
That, or Ajokli is special because he has been involved during Resumption and the First Apocalpyse (aka Celmomas' Dream). Further, then, Ajokli is therefore the root of all sorcery, and therefore meaning, in the world.

That sorcery works despite the fact that the Gods are experiencing Metaphysical Alzheimer's is interesting. The implication is probably somewhere along the lines of: while the Gods might be sealed from the world, Meaning still exists. This theoretically means that Damnation can be ended because the Gods are what create damnation, but Meaning is separate from the Gods - there exists and Outside even without Gods.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

TaoHorror

  • *
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Posts: 1017
  • Blueberry Pskhe Sorcerer
    • View Profile
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2018, 07:42:35 pm »
Apologies for the derail, but more and more I'm seeing Bakker taking Camu's view on the divine ( that if there are god(s), then they are not all powerful or they are evil ) ... this talk of code is telling us ( I think ) that it's all "coded", all of existence and the gods are a part of that code ...  which renders the question, who wrote the code in the first place.

But I agree, if Bakker's response is truthful, then the gods are not completely shut out ( yet ) and can still affect the world. That said, Cure makes a point, Ajokoli as Cniur should not have been able to see TNG ( unless he was simply following that sage advice from Dory, just keep swimming ... he takes him over and simply keeps moving forward ).
May your death be soon, slow and painful

TLEILAXU

  • *
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Exalt-Smiter of Theories
  • Posts: 731
    • View Profile
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2018, 07:51:09 pm »
Apologies for the derail, but more and more I'm seeing Bakker taking Camu's view on the divine ( that if there are god(s), then they are not all powerful or they are evil ) ... this talk of code is telling us ( I think ) that it's all "coded", all of existence and the gods are a part of that code ...  which renders the question, who wrote the code in the first place.

But I agree, if Bakker's response is truthful, then the gods are not completely shut out ( yet ) and can still affect the world. That said, Cure makes a point, Ajokoli as Cniur should not have been able to see TNG ( unless he was simply following that sage advice from Dory, just keep swimming ... he takes him over and simply keeps moving forward ).

The answer could be straight forward i.e. the God of Gods wrote the code. Also, Ajokli could not see the No-God.
What remains to be seen is how the Outside ties in with the Real. Is the No-God's existence and triumph part of the Eschaton that is apparently inherent to the world?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 07:52:55 pm by TLEILAXU »

Madness

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Conversational Batman
  • Posts: 5224
  • Strength on the Journey - Journey Well
    • View Profile
    • The Second Apocalypse
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2018, 10:13:30 pm »
The implication is probably somewhere along the lines of: while the Gods might be sealed from the world, Meaning still exists.

Ajokli, at least - while he might be a special case - is able to inhabit Cnaiur despite Resumption.
The Existential Scream
Weaponizing the Warrior Pose - Declare War Inwardly
carnificibus: multus sanguis fluit
Die Better
The Theory-Killer