(TUC Spoilers) My thoughts overall - I was right and I was wrong... maybe

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SilentRoamer

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« on: August 05, 2017, 09:47:35 am »
Ok, so I finished this a week or so, been wandering around the threads a bit and gathering my thoughts.

Overall I thought this was a great conclusion to the Aspect Emperor and I will do a review for it, I think it deserves commercial success if only so we get another series and Bakker gets to write it. It didn't happen at all like I thought - I expected some sort of reckoning with the Judging Eye but I think that's part of the next series story now.

The dragon vs high ninja witch was awesome. The stamping foot and cracking a Horn was awesome. The whole battle and strategy was awesome and had me consulting the maps - which were also awesome. Awesome is a good adjective to describe this book.

I think Kellhus did indeed go mad, it was his very madness that allowed *him/Ajokli* to use Outside Will is Reality shenanigans for the old appearing heart flourish and probably from then on Kellhus was broken, at least just prior is when we first see him hear the voice of Ajokli. 

However when *Cnaiur/Ajokli* couldn't see him I wondered how mad he actually was, mad enough to make himself a Decapitant in this world and a head on a Pole in the Outside fueled by Believers. It's an interesting subject, especially as we lost Kellhus PoV so early.

So it may be that Kellhus has protected as many souls as he can but I don't really think that, I think he was tricked and my heart is broken for it. I also think Kellhus is the reason that Ajokli sees more than the other gods.

Oh Bakker you are horrible.

Redeagl

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« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2017, 02:24:13 pm »
Bakker said that Kellhus is Done. Also, if  I was a Zaudunyanni and suddenly saw my God/Prophet in Hell with me, I would probably recognize at this point that I was duped. Also, Bakker is writing the next series already, SR. It's called The No-God ;)
“The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before?”

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The Sharmat

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« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2017, 05:14:20 pm »
Saubon's death in TGO was heartbreaking. "Don't listen to him!" indeed.

Duskweaver

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« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2017, 06:00:50 pm »
However when *Cnaiur/Ajokli* couldn't see him
I think you might have misunderstood something. It's Kelmomas that Cnaiur-Becoming-Ajokli fails to see at the end of TUC (because a God cannot see the No-God). Cnaiur just assumes it is Kellhus in the Carapace, just as most of us have for the past several books.
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solipsisticurge

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« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2017, 07:10:16 pm »
However when *Cnaiur/Ajokli* couldn't see him
I think you might have misunderstood something. It's Kelmomas that Cnaiur-Becoming-Ajokli fails to see at the end of TUC (because a God cannot see the No-God). Cnaiur just assumes it is Kellhus in the Carapace, just as most of us have for the past several books.
I was curious about that, whether the possessed individual becomes indistinguishable from Ajokli as he is on the Outside, or whether the personality and actions are filtered through the brain inhabited, stamping at least a partial print on Ajokli in the World. Given that Ajokli-Khellus is remarkably Khellus-lile, and Ajokli-Cnaiur is a lot like Cnaiur, I lean toward the latter. Probably a good bit of Q&A fodder.

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Cynical Cat

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« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2017, 07:45:04 pm »
Saubon's death in TGO was heartbreaking. "Don't listen to him!" indeed.

I really liked that glorious, damaged bastard.  It was a great and terrible moment, with more than a little foreshadowing for poor Proyas.

codebread

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« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2017, 11:42:51 pm »
Bakker said that Kellhus is Done. Also, if  I was a Zaudunyanni and suddenly saw my God/Prophet in Hell with me, I would probably recognize at this point that I was duped. Also, Bakker is writing the next series already, SR. It's called The No-God ;)


I don't recall him saying Kellhus is "done", just that he's "dead". He was being very coy about that actually, evading all Kellhus-related questions with "Kellhus is dead". I'd consider Malowebi to be "dead", also. Of course please correct me if he's since said Kellhus is done. I may have missed something.

The Sharmat

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« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2017, 12:06:03 am »
No matter what happens, people will believe this was all part of Kellhus' plan until Bakker has finished the next series and died of old age.

fecklessfool

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« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2017, 04:55:36 am »
I'm on team Kellhus literally became Ajokli, and the gods are blind to the temporal circumstances that birthed them. Which is why Ajokli couldn't find Kellhus on the outside.

Yes this is my crazy conspiracy theory solely based on taking Bakker literally in the AMA.


Madness

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« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2017, 02:08:10 pm »
Awesome is a good adjective to describe this book.

The right one even. SR, I've missed you, friend :).

Saubon's death in TGO was heartbreaking. "Don't listen to him!" indeed.

I really liked that glorious, damaged bastard.  It was a great and terrible moment, with more than a little foreshadowing for poor Proyas.

That was such a horrifying and *awesome* moment in TGO. When I read the draft I immediately stopped, grabbed my TWP, and checked Saubon's scene. That poor fuck.
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Redeagl

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« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2017, 03:04:44 pm »
Bakker said that Kellhus is Done. Also, if  I was a Zaudunyanni and suddenly saw my God/Prophet in Hell with me, I would probably recognize at this point that I was duped. Also, Bakker is writing the next series already, SR. It's called The No-God ;)


I don't recall him saying Kellhus is "done", just that he's "dead". He was being very coy about that actually, evading all Kellhus-related questions with "Kellhus is dead". I'd consider Malowebi to be "dead", also. Of course please correct me if he's since said Kellhus is done. I may have missed something.
Someone asked about Kellhus and Meppa in the third series. Can't paraphrase, but Bakker said again that Kellhus is "dead" but Meppa is alive and will have a role and is a bog RAFO. The tone inclines that there isn't much left for big K.
“The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before?”

- Chronicler of the Chroniclers

Redeagl

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« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2017, 03:06:29 pm »
No matter what happens, people will believe this was all part of Kellhus' plan until Bakker has finished the next series and died of old age.
Like I once said, Kellhus theories are the new Möenghus crackpots :P
“The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before?”

- Chronicler of the Chroniclers

Hiro

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« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2017, 05:06:27 pm »
No matter what happens, people will believe this was all part of Kellhus' plan until Bakker has finished the next series and died of old age.
Like I once said, Kellhus theories are the new Möenghus crackpots :P

^ that. Bakker has stated and restated Kellhus = dead a lot of times here and at the AMA...
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Yellow

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« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2017, 05:10:39 pm »
Awesome is a good adjective to describe this book.

The right one even. SR, I've missed you, friend :).

Saubon's death in TGO was heartbreaking. "Don't listen to him!" indeed.

I really liked that glorious, damaged bastard.  It was a great and terrible moment, with more than a little foreshadowing for poor Proyas.

That was such a horrifying and *awesome* moment in TGO. When I read the draft I immediately stopped, grabbed my TWP, and checked Saubon's scene. That poor fuck.

Completely. For me this was the biggest breath taking moment in the whole seven books.

Poor Saubon.
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« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2017, 01:28:18 am »
No matter what happens, people will believe this was all part of Kellhus' plan until Bakker has finished the next series and died of old age.
Like I once said, Kellhus theories are the new Möenghus crackpots :P

Lol, love it.

Awesome is a good adjective to describe this book.

The right one even. SR, I've missed you, friend :).

Saubon's death in TGO was heartbreaking. "Don't listen to him!" indeed.

I really liked that glorious, damaged bastard.  It was a great and terrible moment, with more than a little foreshadowing for poor Proyas.

That was such a horrifying and *awesome* moment in TGO. When I read the draft I immediately stopped, grabbed my TWP, and checked Saubon's scene. That poor fuck.

Completely. For me this was the biggest breath taking moment in the whole seven books.

Poor Saubon.

"Don't trust hi-"

Heart-wrenching.
The Existential Scream
Weaponizing the Warrior Pose - Declare War Inwardly
carnificibus: multus sanguis fluit
Die Better
The Theory-Killer