[Everything Spoilers] Are these plot holes?

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robizeratul

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« on: August 10, 2017, 11:04:51 am »
After thinking about it, these are the only(possible) plot holes I can think of.
 
1)Why didn't Moengus realize Kellhus will be a sorceror ? Even without Akka, he shortest path dictates that he convince a scarlet schoolman. He admitted to being weak, he had no chance in winning against Kellhus wielding the Daimos or other sorceries.
 
2)Why didn't Moe learn other sorcery? He had the time. Capturing a schoolman would have been easy, even Akka went to Shimeh years before. From what I understand the schools guard their secrets, that's why there are distinctive schools...but this is no problem for him. Can't a Cisharum learn other sorcery?
 
3)Did Kellhus know of Cnaiur? it would have been obvious for him to know.
 
4)If Cnaiur is a reincarnation of a god(or something like it) How can he "see" the No-God ?
 
This for now. will post more if it comes to mind...

H

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« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2017, 11:53:27 am »
After thinking about it, these are the only(possible) plot holes I can think of.
 
1)Why didn't Moengus realize Kellhus will be a sorceror ? Even without Akka, he shortest path dictates that he convince a scarlet schoolman. He admitted to being weak, he had no chance in winning against Kellhus wielding the Daimos or other sorceries.

I don't think he really cared.  Moe's ideal outcome was to have Kellhus join him.  Besting him wasn't a factor he was planning for, or else he would have further conditioned the ground at Kyudea.  Moe was really expecting him to simply join him and eventually superseded him in exacting the Thought.  He simply discounted the outside chance that Kellhus would be insane, to his death.

2)Why didn't Moe learn other sorcery? He had the time. Capturing a schoolman would have been easy, even Akka went to Shimeh years before. From what I understand the schools guard their secrets, that's why there are distinctive schools...but this is no problem for him. Can't a Cisharum learn other sorcery?

Well, at that point he was blind and realized he would need Kellhus to further advance the Thought.  More sorcery wouldn't really help him, he was at the limit of his abilities in any case.  Kellhus was the key to the Thought's success.

3)Did Kellhus know of Cnaiur? it would have been obvious for him to know.

When?  Before meeting him?  I don't see how he would have.

Or do you mean being at Golgotterath at the end?  Presumably he could have, but I doubt he cared much.

4)If Cnaiur is a reincarnation of a god(or something like it) How can he "see" the No-God ?

He isn't a reincarnation though, he just becomes possessed.  So, Ajokli can see through his eyes and so see what any mundane entity could.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

solipsisticurge

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« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2017, 04:55:58 pm »
Kellhus would have no way of knowing Cnaiur, or the Scylvendi at all, exist upon leaving Ishual. He would have quickly deduced his father's involvement, though.

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The Sharmat

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« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2017, 01:44:39 am »
It's ambiguous if Cnaiür is simply possessed by Ajokli or if he actually becomes Ajokli (and if so, if that means in some way he was always Ajokli), but either way, he can't see the No-God. He knows it exists but can't find it and interact with it despite recognizing the signs of its passage.

Sausuna

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« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2017, 02:22:54 pm »
1. He probably fully expected him to be a sorcerer. I think it might even have noted as much. But he didn't expect Kellhus to go mad and turn against him.
2. Probably for a couple reasons. I'm pretty sure the Fanim/Cisharum outlaw other magic, though I can't say for sure off-hand. But having the Mark of a normal sorcerer would put him on a much higher hit list in regards to enemies. And if anyone outed him, he'd at best be a blind wizard. Not to mention you can't (from what I recall) torture out the Gnosis, so he'd be stuck with Anagogic at best.
3. When? If you mean outside the Ark with his tribes, probably, if only given his reputation and the mustering of his people, though it isn't clear. He probably didn't care either way.
4. I'm not sure precisely what he was, but he couldn't see the No-god when he transformed, as others noted.

Hope this helps!