Modern Day Times With A Dunyain

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SuJuroit

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« Reply #60 on: March 26, 2018, 07:30:11 pm »
Interesting thread.  I feel like human potential can come close to the Dunyain in many, perhaps even most, areas, while obviously falling short (arrow catches, Kellhus' superhuman strength, mastering new languages in a week or two).  Some people really are immensely charismatic and adept at getting other people to follow them, listen to them, buy from them.  Not to Dunyain levels, but sometimes close.  Think cult leaders.  Some people really do have stupendous reflexes and hand eye coordination.  They can't catch arrows, but compared to us muggles they're lightning quick.  Think elite professional boxers.  You can do this with all the various Dunyain virtues. 

Of course, the distinguishing factor is that ALL the Dunyain can do ALL that stuff.  Any given human is incredibly lucky to have even one of those talents (to a far lesser degree than any Dunyain would).

SmilerLoki

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« Reply #61 on: March 26, 2018, 07:56:42 pm »
lmao, why doesn't that surprise me at all?
It was a fun story, but trying to read a whole book like that would be insane. I wonder if Bakker could write one? Might be fun, albeit excruciatingly frustrating.
I assume you know about Mark Z. Danielewski of "House of Leaves" fame?

On the subject of the Four Revelations, I'm also quite a fan of the fact that Cinial'jin was the father of Immiriccas, the Nonman whose soul inhabits the Amiolas.

ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #62 on: March 26, 2018, 08:39:24 pm »
On the subject of the Four Revelations, I'm also quite a fan of the fact that Cinial'jin was the father of Immiriccas, the Nonman whose soul inhabits the Amiolas.

There are still some earlier comments of yours I want to write a proper reply to, but I just wanted to pop in and agree with you here. The Cinial'jin connection was a nice interesting tidbit. (And that was the reason he was referred to as the "famed father" a couple of times in Four Revelations, right? We just didn't know about the connection at the time.)
I'm also of the opinion that Four Revelations is a fascinating short story, if very confusing.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2018, 08:41:02 pm by ThoughtsOfThelli »
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasūrimbor Kayūtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

Wilshire

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« Reply #63 on: March 26, 2018, 09:12:42 pm »
lmao, why doesn't that surprise me at all?
It was a fun story, but trying to read a whole book like that would be insane. I wonder if Bakker could write one? Might be fun, albeit excruciatingly frustrating.
I assume you know about Mark Z. Danielewski of "House of Leaves" fame?

On the subject of the Four Revelations, I'm also quite a fan of the fact that Cinial'jin was the father of Immiriccas, the Nonman whose soul inhabits the Amiolas.
I think FB mentioned it to me once but nothing beyond that.

I'm not knocking 4 revelations btw. It was a fun short, one of his better, and definitely imaginative. I just struggled with it.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

SmilerLoki

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« Reply #64 on: March 26, 2018, 09:39:01 pm »
(And that was the reason he was referred to as the "famed father" a couple of times in Four Revelations, right? We just didn't know about the connection at the time.)
I actually think that's more about Cinial'jin himself, since it's mentioned during his musings about his daughter, whose death, on balance of probability, preceded any exploits Immiriccas became at the same time famous and infamous for.

I think FB mentioned it to me once but nothing beyond that.
Danielewski is a master of non-standard narrative and structuring of prose and text. I unfortunately cannot wholly read "House of Leaves" or "Only Revolutions", since I can't get a physical copy (and it can't be converted to ebook format, the way those works are constructed prohibits it). His later huge series "The Familiar" is much less engaging to me, but there you can see entire episodes written in some fairly interesting ways. Even if it's only playing with form, I still enjoyed looking through it.

I'm not knocking 4 revelations btw. It was a fun short, one of his better, and definitely imaginative. I just struggled with it.
Exactly the way I understood you.

ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #65 on: March 26, 2018, 09:55:02 pm »
I actually think that's more about Cinial'jin himself, since it's mentioned during his musings about his daughter, whose death, on balance of probability, preceded any exploits Immiriccas became at the same time famous and infamous for.

Equally valid interpretation on your part. That's the beauty of Four Revelations, Cinial'jin's memories could likely be interpreted in several different ways regarding certain points.
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasūrimbor Kayūtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

SmilerLoki

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« Reply #66 on: March 26, 2018, 10:04:01 pm »
Equally valid interpretation on your part. That's the beauty of Four Revelations, Cinial'jin's memories could likely be interpreted in several different ways regarding certain points.
Indeed!

TaoHorror

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« Reply #67 on: March 27, 2018, 09:58:30 pm »
I assume you know about Mark Z. Danielewski of "House of Leaves" fame?

House of Leaves is one of my all time favorite books. I wasn't much into fantasy and found Bakker looking for quality horror.
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H

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« Reply #68 on: March 28, 2018, 08:07:35 pm »
I actually think that's more about Cinial'jin himself, since it's mentioned during his musings about his daughter, whose death, on balance of probability, preceded any exploits Immiriccas became at the same time famous and infamous for.

Equally valid interpretation on your part. That's the beauty of Four Revelations, Cinial'jin's memories could likely be interpreted in several different ways regarding certain points.

In color coding Four Revelations I read it many, many times.  It's really not all that confusing to me, it's just completely bereft of context for nearly everything.  So, it's completely unclear what any of it means, not really all that unclear what is actually happening.  I guess that's somewhat similar, but to me it's rather different.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasūrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

SmilerLoki

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« Reply #69 on: March 28, 2018, 08:33:13 pm »
In color coding Four Revelations I read it many, many times.  It's really not all that confusing to me, it's just completely bereft of context for nearly everything.  So, it's completely unclear what any of it means, not really all that unclear what is actually happening.  I guess that's somewhat similar, but to me it's rather different.
It's not all that confusing, I completely agree, but it is layered by default, so the way to interpret through interconnected multiple associations is entirely valid.

H

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« Reply #70 on: March 29, 2018, 05:49:43 pm »
It's not all that confusing, I completely agree, but it is layered by default, so the way to interpret through interconnected multiple associations is entirely valid.

Yeah, I wasn't intending to critique the analysis.  I still do stand by the idea though that there is so much context missing from what memories we are shown, that anything like full understanding is pretty much impossible.  Who is Par’sigiccas?  Why is he half burned?  Why would Skafra be talking to Cinial'jin anyway?

It's all incomplete.  In a way that could be considering confusing, but really it's just incomplete.  I just noticed the thread title though and now I have no idea how we got here.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasūrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

SmilerLoki

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« Reply #71 on: March 29, 2018, 08:09:32 pm »
It's all incomplete.  In a way that could be considering confusing, but really it's just incomplete.
Then we are in agreement.