[TUC Spoilers] Nascenti of Zaudunyanicon

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Wilshire

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« Reply #60 on: August 16, 2017, 05:16:41 pm »
It will be markless sorcery indistinguishable from creation, the same way emilidis tried to create an object the same way.
Which leads into even more interesting lines of thought.
The Psukyhe leaves no mark, yet the users are still vulnerable to Chorae. Whereas some artifacts made by Emilidis are immune to Chorae. Which leaves one to wonder what uniquely about these artifacts allows them to be immune.

I can't recall if his artifacts left the mark as well or not, though I feel like they didn't.

This reminds me of a one off comment. Titirga, his power, and his weirdly washed out mark, was because he was wielding some version of the Puske.

Give what we know now, how Fane and his teachings are (unfortunately) very far from the truth, I'm going to assume that their 'marklessness' has nothing to do with the Solitary God or their religion.

From that, something important is happening here with this super-gnosis thing, Emilidis, and the psuke. Something about being able to see the Onta allowing sorcery, but blindness allowing you to truly see creation. Something about how a deep intellectual understanding of the world/creation allows you to create truely as the world was created, be it psuke or gnosis.

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Redeagl, I know you were joking, but I wasn't, so into the thread it went ;) No hard feelings.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 05:19:59 pm by Wilshire »
One of the other conditions of possibility.

H

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« Reply #61 on: August 16, 2017, 05:28:18 pm »
I was being kinda tongue-in-cheek with the description, but apparently Kellhus' "markless" magic - like him levitating at the last whelming (Kelmomas said he couldn't see him doing sorcery) had nothing to do with Ajokli. All Kellhus magic all the way.

Kellhus has learned so much about sorcery that he has developed some magics that are, more or less, indistinguishable from the world.

That's got a whole lot of implications.

Well, there really isn't anything to keep Kellhus from spiking the Meta-Gnosis with the Psūkhe, besides the fact that he still has his eyes.  Yet, from the lesson of Titirga, while it helps to be blind in developing the Water, the Psūkhe can still be used while sighted.  Perhaps Kellhus was on the trail of the Psūkhe and in the last encounter with Meppa he discovered the last few things he needed to know in order to wield it.  We simply don't know how things would work together, because no one, besides Kellhus, really knows (much) more than one of the Gnosis/Anagogis/Psūkhe.  Further adding the Daimos complicates things even more so.

Perhaps even Titirga could have devised something like this, had he lived longer.  Then again, he didn't have the Meta-Gnosis, so we don't know how many "inutterals" he could muster.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasūrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

Gnostic Cants

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« Reply #62 on: August 16, 2017, 05:33:51 pm »

- "Kellhus is dead but not done."


Wonder if Bakker is seeding this idea with his talk about "Gin'yursis" becoming a Ciphrang. Or if Kellhus' head was the decapitant he put on Malowebi's body (I don't think the latter is true, but it's an outside thought I've had).

Also, about halos -- in the tower, we see holograms at work (with the No-God return masquerading as Kellhus transcendent)... wondering if Kellhus figure out something similar. The floating without using sorcery piece strikes me as similar.

Sausuna

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« Reply #63 on: August 16, 2017, 05:36:16 pm »
I was being kinda tongue-in-cheek with the description, but apparently Kellhus' "markless" magic - like him levitating at the last whelming (Kelmomas said he couldn't see him doing sorcery) had nothing to do with Ajokli. All Kellhus magic all the way.

Kellhus has learned so much about sorcery that he has developed some magics that are, more or less, indistinguishable from the world.

That's got a whole lot of implications.

Well, there really isn't anything to keep Kellhus from spiking the Meta-Gnosis with the Psūkhe, besides the fact that he still has his eyes.  Yet, from the lesson of Titirga, while it helps to be blind in developing the Water, the Psūkhe can still be used while sighted.  Perhaps Kellhus was on the trail of the Psūkhe and in the last encounter with Meppa he discovered the last few things he needed to know in order to wield it.  We simply don't know how things would work together, because no one, besides Kellhus, really knows (much) more than one of the Gnosis/Anagogis/Psūkhe.  Further adding the Daimos complicates things even more so.

Perhaps even Titirga could have devised something like this, had he lived longer.  Then again, he didn't have the Meta-Gnosis, so we don't know how many "inutterals" he could muster.
Well, the biggest issue with Kellhus using the Psūkhe would be the same issue Moėnghus has, no?

Whenever I thought about Titirga, I always figured he was using aspects of the Psūkhe by accident. That he using the Gnosis while adding in his passion semi-learned from his youthful period of blindness. 

codebread

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« Reply #64 on: August 16, 2017, 06:40:16 pm »
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« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 06:44:58 pm by Wilshire »

Wilshire

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« Reply #65 on: August 16, 2017, 06:42:29 pm »
Kellhus is much more than his father, but that's not the point. He isn't wielding the psuke as the Cishaurim would have understood it. First, he's not blind, but beyond that he likely (imo) is doing something with his understanding of creation more similar to Emilidis than Moenghus.

Then again, if its straight psuke, levitating a meter above the ground isn't something I'd call an exceptional dispensation of power. Perhaps it is the puske, and he is limited to part tricks like making his voice loud and floating a cubit off the ground.

---
Thanks codebread. Moved to the other post ;) .
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Gnostic Cants

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« Reply #66 on: August 16, 2017, 06:50:08 pm »
The epic tale of how Crabicus/the Boy will save the World single-handedly? ;)

I guffawed out loud at the pun here. I share an office with two other people, who happened to be talking to two other people in here. They all looked at me like I'm crazy (I've had my headphones on, trying to ignore them and look like I'm working and not reading all of Bakker's AMA posts).

Anyway, thanks for the clever post TOT.

ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #67 on: August 16, 2017, 07:02:36 pm »
The epic tale of how Crabicus/the Boy will save the World single-handedly? ;)

I guffawed out loud at the pun here. I share an office with two other people, who happened to be talking to two other people in here. They all looked at me like I'm crazy (I've had my headphones on, trying to ignore them and look like I'm working and not reading all of Bakker's AMA posts).

Anyway, thanks for the clever post TOT.

You're welcome, Gnostic Cants. I couldn't resist, puns make everything better, TSA included. :P Sorry about that one slight moment of embarrassment, though.
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Sausuna

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« Reply #68 on: August 16, 2017, 07:07:27 pm »
Kellhus is much more than his father, but that's not the point. He isn't wielding the psuke as the Cishaurim would have understood it. First, he's not blind, but beyond that he likely (imo) is doing something with his understanding of creation more similar to Emilidis than Moenghus.

Then again, if its straight psuke, levitating a meter above the ground isn't something I'd call an exceptional dispensation of power. Perhaps it is the puske, and he is limited to part tricks like making his voice loud and floating a cubit off the ground.

---
Thanks codebread. Moved to the other post ;) .
Do expressions of the Psūkhe inherently cause glowing eyes/mouth and singing? I honestly can't recall. Not to say this can't be some other unique expression of markless magic he does. But I just find the idea that it directly relates to the Psūkhe to seem hard to fit in.

Wilshire

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« Reply #69 on: August 16, 2017, 07:11:28 pm »
A glowing forehead, I do believe, not mouth and eyes.
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Gnostic Cants

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« Reply #70 on: August 16, 2017, 07:32:50 pm »
The epic tale of how Crabicus/the Boy will save the World single-handedly? ;)

I guffawed out loud at the pun here. I share an office with two other people, who happened to be talking to two other people in here. They all looked at me like I'm crazy (I've had my headphones on, trying to ignore them and look like I'm working and not reading all of Bakker's AMA posts).

Anyway, thanks for the clever post TOT.

You're welcome, Gnostic Cants. I couldn't resist, puns make everything better, TSA included. :P Sorry about that one slight moment of embarrassment, though.

As small price to pay, friend.

codebread

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« Reply #71 on: August 16, 2017, 08:46:05 pm »
Bakker was nonplussed by the name Crabbicus, and he seemed almost offended that we've starting calling the first book of TNG The Crabiqiad.

Yeah, he didn't like that at all... but it's such a good name and consistent with Bakker's words so far about TNG. You can't call it the Sagas, tell us the Crabicus' story might be a whole book, and then not have us use the naming conventions provided to us so far.

I'll bet it's a McCarthy thing: the Boy was to rename Nameless, I suppose.


Hearing Bakker's reactions to this stuff is fascinating to me. I wonder if he's kicking himself for not making things more clear in retrospect, or if he's upset that we have the gall to name and theorize like that.

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« Reply #72 on: August 16, 2017, 08:50:43 pm »
I find this totally amusing (begging Bakker pardon for that).
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Wilshire

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« Reply #73 on: August 17, 2017, 11:39:48 am »
"nonplussed" - more like totally disgusted at the mere thought of 'crabicus', which pail then compounded with 'crabiciad' for the title. A bit of merriment at Bakker's expense.

And yes, I believe the nameless child is supposed to remain nameless.
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themerchant

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« Reply #74 on: August 17, 2017, 01:37:56 pm »
Well in TGO there was all this stuff about even Dunyain being "born on a path" so therefore they just follow the path (through Koringhus PoV), with crabicus he has no path, Koringhus told him everything he taught him was a lie. So i imagine Bakker will riff with that.

Obviously Bakker's point is more nuanced than not being on a path anymore.