[TUC Spoilers] Some No-God considerations

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Cüréthañ

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« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2017, 03:33:15 pm »
Well, not to be critical of the analogy, but people with Alzheimer's can influenced the world. Memory issues don't preclude the ability to interact with things. And given Kellhus in the vision, for all we know, he was aiding Gilgoal or Ajokli for some reason. Now, I'm not sure one way or another, I imagine there are other textual statements on the matter. Just saying for the sake of that answer, it isn't clear they could or couldn't manifest influence.

Thing is that the Gods dwell in sub-realities where reality conforms to desire. The things in those realities are harvested from memories of the real world. They interact with reality through souls like Sorweel and Psatma primarily via memories.

Does the Celmoman prophecy seem like it was delivered by someone with Alzhiemers?
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SmilerLoki

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« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2017, 03:47:08 pm »
Thing is that the Gods dwell in sub-realities where reality conforms to desire. The things in those realities are harvested from memories of the real world.
Why do you think so?

I can propose another explanation. The Gods, being intrinsically connected with Men and anthropomorphic, conform to cultural reality. Or some mainly subconscious rendering of it. Their realms are shaped by all Men throughout history simultaneously, and their connection to souls in this framework is ever-present, i.e. they are connected with the entirety of Mankind, which in turn creates the Gods the way the are. So the Gods are what Men imagine nature and life to be, only real and affirming their existence.

But there are other ways to think about it.

Does the Celmoman prophecy seem like it was delivered by someone with Alzhiemers?
Here, I fear, we can have it both ways, and also every way in between.

Sausuna

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« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2017, 04:23:59 pm »
Well, not to be critical of the analogy, but people with Alzheimer's can influenced the world. Memory issues don't preclude the ability to interact with things. And given Kellhus in the vision, for all we know, he was aiding Gilgoal or Ajokli for some reason. Now, I'm not sure one way or another, I imagine there are other textual statements on the matter. Just saying for the sake of that answer, it isn't clear they could or couldn't manifest influence.

Thing is that the Gods dwell in sub-realities where reality conforms to desire. The things in those realities are harvested from memories of the real world. They interact with reality through souls like Sorweel and Psatma primarily via memories.

Does the Celmoman prophecy seem like it was delivered by someone with Alzhiemers?
Really? I always thought they were just using visions for Sorweel. They also use that mud-face that the one slave makes. And he's always seeing that bird (heron? stork?). Either way, I still don't find the terminology compelling to say they are literally unable to influence the world.


The Celmoman prophecy seems like it was delivered by someone who is bad at giving messages.
"Brave King…
Brave, broken King…
Behold the son of a hundred fathers…
Behold the end of the World…"
If the wording is to be believed, though there might be more because it seems a stretch to interpret that into 'they said another Anasurimbor will come at the end of the world' with nothing else.

Woden

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« Reply #33 on: August 23, 2017, 08:05:25 pm »

The Celmoman prophecy seems like it was delivered by someone who is bad at giving messages.
"Brave King…
Brave, broken King…
Behold the son of a hundred fathers…
Behold the end of the World…"
If the wording is to be believed, though there might be more because it seems a stretch to interpret that into 'they said another Anasurimbor will come at the end of the world' with nothing else.

Obscure like all the prophecies.
Know what your slaves believe, and you will always be their master.

Cüréthañ

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« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2017, 01:19:26 am »
Well and good. I think the Gods are largely neutralized while the No-God is functional, but we shall see.
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SmilerLoki

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« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2017, 11:45:23 am »
Well and good. I think the Gods are largely neutralized while the No-God is functional, but we shall see.
From what we have seen, they shouldn't be able to at least directly oppose the No-God.

H

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« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2017, 12:27:17 pm »
Well and good. I think the Gods are largely neutralized while the No-God is functional, but we shall see.
From what we have seen, they shouldn't be able to at least directly oppose the No-God.
Not that we can know, really, but things could be different this time, given Ajokli's presence in Eärwa now and the possibility he thinks Kellhus is in the Sarcophagus.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

Cüréthañ

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« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2017, 12:40:28 pm »
I kind of back the idea that Ajokli retains agency via having some portion of himself in the material realm.

But it's equally likely to me that it just took some time for the No God's "virus" to erase his mind - even as he manifested through Cnaiur.

At any rate, he seems like the most demonic and evil out of the Hundred so I don't know if it would be a good thing.
Retracing his bloody footprints, the Wizard limped on.

SmilerLoki

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« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2017, 01:02:26 pm »
I think it's narratively tempting to use Ajokli as a plot device somewhere down the line.

Sausuna

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« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2017, 01:11:18 pm »
Well and good. I think the Gods are largely neutralized while the No-God is functional, but we shall see.
From what we have seen, they shouldn't be able to at least directly oppose the No-God.
Not that we can know, really, but things could be different this time, given Ajokli's presence in Eärwa now and the possibility he thinks Kellhus is in the Sarcophagus.
Well, it seemed like Cnaiür thought he was in there. Ajokli still couldn't see it.

profgrape

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« Reply #40 on: August 27, 2017, 01:29:23 pm »
I forgot to mention this in my earlier post about "the code". But I think what they're talking about is "99 + 1". The fact that it's come up in two seemingly disconnected places feels like a hint.