Who actually liked TUC?

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Rots

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« Reply #60 on: September 14, 2017, 07:42:43 pm »
So i have completed my re-read and i have thoughts.

1. The Cannibal Rape Holocaust is better upon a re-read. But its hard to tease out exactly why. I think i appreciate it more, full stop. I also think that i wasnt impatient to get to the part of the book where, you know, maybe the Unholy Consult gets the detailed treatment many of us assumed it would. Since that obviously didnt happen i was better able to just carefully read the CRH and appreciate it for what it is. Its still too large a portion of the book but since the book is what it is i know longer hate it and take it on its own terms

2. There are still a whole lot of Chekhov's Guns laying around. My initial criticisms of RSB stand in regards to Akka and Mimara going for a fucking 4 book walkabout and do a grand total of jack shit. That doesnt mean that i dont hold much love for both of them, i do, however, their integration into TUC was a whole lot of sound & fury signifying nothing.

3. The title should be changed to: The Horns of Golgotterath - sure, the boards had guessed about the Dunsult twist but obviously no one knew. What was in actual evidence was that the most devious and evil minds of inchies/non-man/man were still the Unholy Consult. I think the title vs. the actual substance of the book is a cheap 3 card monty type of subterfuge. At least we have The False Sun and ill consider that my go to for cool Unholy Consult pov and background. The ppl on this board and others around the 'net are by definition a very small subset of RSBs very small fan base - how many ppl have actually read and discussed TFS? probably not many in the grand scheme of things. This title sucked.

4. Has anyone figured out wtf RSB was referring to when he talked about everyone missing something important? Dear RSB, if everyone is missing it the fault is with you, not the reader. RSB is very glib when pushing back on the readers and while i am 100% fine with ambiguity (as previously stated i loved the ending of TTT for example, or the pulling of Serwe's heart, etc etc) but when everyone is fucking clueless than perhaps pull back a bit on your glibness and spell some shit out and please spare me the sanctimonious crap regarding how the people who dont get it are actually the ones who get it the most of all. That the sort of BS i expect out of upper mngt trying to pull a TED talk out of their ass while they are announcing layoffs.

5. Because i dont have TGO near me i have a quick question that i just cannot recall the answer to. At the end of TGO when future/current/always No-God Kel interrupts the Narindar creeping up on Kellhus, which god does that WLW belong to? Yatwer, Ajokli, Momas? I just cant recall. 

Anyways, upon review, i like TUC (HOG) better than before but i am still moderately unsatisfied. Meh.

Yellow

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« Reply #61 on: September 15, 2017, 06:12:35 am »
At least we have The False Sun and ill consider that my go to for cool Unholy Consult pov and background.

Well said! Agree with you 100 % here. I wanted more like that in TUC.

5. Because i dont have TGO near me i have a quick question that i just cannot recall the answer to. At the end of TGO when future/current/always No-God Kel interrupts the Narindar creeping up on Kellhus, which god does that WLW belong to? Yatwer, Ajokli, Momas? I just cant recall. 

Anyways, upon review, i like TUC (HOG) better than before but i am still moderately unsatisfied. Meh.

It was Yatwer.

I also prefer the title Horns of Golgotterath, much more fitting and inspiring.
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TLEILAXU

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« Reply #62 on: September 15, 2017, 11:58:09 am »
I like The Unholy Consult. I prefer titles to be more general rather than reference specific in-story locations/characters.
Also, I can't be the only one who'd have preferred if the book had ended with "Thus the Great Ordeal of Anasūrimbor Kellhus ended in BLOOD and salt" instead of butchery.

Sausuna

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« Reply #63 on: September 15, 2017, 12:51:33 pm »
I still find it baffling someone even takes titles in a very serious manner to the point of saying it sucked. A title is just a title. We already had an idea of what some of the story would be from the outline/blurb and prior comments. If someone thinks the title was subterfuge, I think they buy too much into titles in general.

Yellow

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« Reply #64 on: September 15, 2017, 01:49:07 pm »
I find your bafflement baffling!
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Sausuna

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« Reply #65 on: September 15, 2017, 03:57:48 pm »
I find your bafflement baffling!
Well, I think there is a difference between saying another title might 'much more fitting and inspiring' compared to saying it is 'a cheap 3 card monty type of subterfuge ... it sucked.'

Yellow

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« Reply #66 on: September 15, 2017, 04:32:52 pm »
Yeah, fair enough.

I do think titles are very important, though.
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Rots

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« Reply #67 on: September 17, 2017, 02:10:50 am »
I still find it baffling someone even takes titles in a very serious manner to the point of saying it sucked. A title is just a title. We already had an idea of what some of the story would be from the outline/blurb and prior comments. If someone thinks the title was subterfuge, I think they buy too much into titles in general.

Titles matter because words have meaning. The previous 6 titles have been very on point and appropriate, imo, in a way that this title and book were not. The title primes the reader and in this case there was a misfire. I find that disappointing. RSB had mentioned something about the g-string (or whatever) coming off in this book and that primes his audience to expect X when instead we got Y.

TaoHorror

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« Reply #68 on: September 17, 2017, 12:47:59 pm »
I actually agree with Rots, but for a different reason. I'm fairly well put off by the title as it's a spoiler. For any new readers, The Consult could well be bullshit for several books, maybe even into the 6th as we don't see Aurang until near the end of that book. Even in TUC, the eerie  silence and apparent "no one's at home" approach to the horns was yielding some confusion and "what if the damn thing's abandoned" were my thoughts. VERY cool, clever writing and would've been more wild if the title was more along the lines of what Rots is suggesting.

So I find the ending very satisfying and don't find it to be a betrayal by the author, myself - but I do take exception to the title for "spoiling" the story before the book is read.
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Yellow

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« Reply #69 on: September 17, 2017, 01:35:40 pm »
Maybe I don't understand your point, but we see Aurang in pretty much every book, right?
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Redeagl

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« Reply #70 on: September 17, 2017, 02:12:36 pm »
I actually agree with Rots, but for a different reason. I'm fairly well put off by the title as it's a spoiler. For any new readers, The Consult could well be bullshit for several books, maybe even into the 6th as we don't see Aurang until near the end of that book. Even in TUC, the eerie  silence and apparent "no one's at home" approach to the horns was yielding some confusion and "what if the damn thing's abandoned" were my thoughts. VERY cool, clever writing and would've been more wild if the title was more along the lines of what Rots is suggesting.

So I find the ending very satisfying and don't find it to be a betrayal by the author, myself - but I do take exception to the title for "spoiling" the story before the book is read.
We do see Aurang from TDTCB though.
“The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before?”

- Chronicler of the Chroniclers

TaoHorror

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« Reply #71 on: September 17, 2017, 05:12:00 pm »
Yes, of course, you’re both right – in spite of my poor argument, the mystery of The Consult was altered by the title of TUC - for me, anyways. I'll spare you more of my flawed perceptions on the books - I'll leave it as it does seem to matter the book titled the way it is. And now the next series could be titled, The No-God? For us who have journeyed with the author, this is fine. But for new readers to the series, that’s a big spoiler of a title. Making the titles more abstract like the previous books is the way to go.
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Sausuna

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« Reply #72 on: September 18, 2017, 12:55:13 pm »
I still find it baffling someone even takes titles in a very serious manner to the point of saying it sucked. A title is just a title. We already had an idea of what some of the story would be from the outline/blurb and prior comments. If someone thinks the title was subterfuge, I think they buy too much into titles in general.

Titles matter because words have meaning. The previous 6 titles have been very on point and appropriate, imo, in a way that this title and book were not. The title primes the reader and in this case there was a misfire. I find that disappointing. RSB had mentioned something about the g-string (or whatever) coming off in this book and that primes his audience to expect X when instead we got Y.
And some words have less importance than others. The comments about everything being revealed is an entirely different complaint than comments on the title.

@Tao, that seems a more reasonable complaint. And one I can generally agree with. Even more-so with The No-God coming up.

Wilshire

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« Reply #73 on: September 26, 2017, 04:44:57 pm »
For us who have journeyed with the author
Its been a thrilling and exciting time to be a TSA fan. I regret nothing, including the future experience of readers that might not exist ;)
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Bolivar

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« Reply #74 on: September 28, 2017, 03:04:01 am »
I've always felt this way about the title. I can't believe we saw more of the Ark proper in TTT than we did in TUC. Maybe it's unfair to hold him to this standard but when you build it up for years that the final book is The Unholy Consult and the way it was described in interviews in the years leading up to it, you're expecting some crazy shit. Then The Great Ordeal raised the anticipation further with the nuke, Ishterebinth, the Survivor's Son, and the head on the pole. Aurax should've been an insane encounter. We're told about the Mangeacca existing during the First Holy War now we're supposed to believe they all died out.

I expect it was intended to be frustrating and maybe it was a stroke of genius, that eery feeling that Golgotterath was abandoned, the horn coming down (holy shit), Kellhus decimating Aurang and subduing the Dunsult, only for it all to turn on them in the end. But I agree The Horns of Golgotterath would've been a better title.