Who actually liked TUC?

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Dez

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« Reply #75 on: October 05, 2017, 04:32:54 pm »
I thought the title was fitting because it goes to not only the obvious in that everything was leading to the confrontation with what we thought the Consult was, but also the twist regarding its actual configuration. I also thought the reveal of Kellhus's own dealings with the Outside, and the fact that it ends in disaster gave the title another layer of meaning. Kellhus had his own consult going.

Cuttlefish

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« Reply #76 on: November 09, 2017, 03:02:21 pm »
I didn't very much like it, I'm afraid. In addition to prose being hard to understand at parts, I felt like a lot of the storylines hit dead ends. That, and my every favourite character getting killed off made this one the book I least enjoyed.

TaoHorror

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« Reply #77 on: November 09, 2017, 07:09:03 pm »
I didn't very much like it, I'm afraid. In addition to prose being hard to understand at parts, I felt like a lot of the storylines hit dead ends. That, and my every favourite character getting killed off made this one the book I least enjoyed.

Bakker wanted us to be dismayed by the ending - don't let him manipulate you, let him know we're too quick to allow us to be Dunyain'd by him - LOVE the ending, toss the book up into the air and shout to the heavens, "Humanity loses, AWESOME!"
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Bolivar

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« Reply #78 on: November 09, 2017, 07:32:42 pm »
The more I think about it, the angrier I become.

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H

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« Reply #79 on: November 09, 2017, 07:53:08 pm »
The more I think about it, the angrier I become.

That bad?

I've was wondering where you'd been....
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasūrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

BeardFisher-King

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« Reply #80 on: November 09, 2017, 09:26:33 pm »
The more I think about it, the angrier I become.

That was me, two months ago. My copy of TUC has rested, untouched, on my bookshelf, since it was put there at the end of July.
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TaoHorror

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« Reply #81 on: November 09, 2017, 10:05:53 pm »
The more I think about it, the angrier I become.

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I'm telling you'all, Bakker is playing you - don't let it happen. Don't let anyone ( including me ) manipulate you! Time to root for the bad guy(s), go Consult! He says those who hated the ending get the books more so then those who didn't ...
 he's outright admitting he's fucking with us.
May your death be soon, slow and painful

Dora Vee

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« Reply #82 on: November 09, 2017, 11:10:28 pm »
Quote
That, and my every favorite character getting killed off made this one the book I least enjoyed.

If they're who I think they are, I can't say I blame you. :(

Loved the gay cannibalism though. I don't think any other author could have pulled that off.
Faith is the truth of passion. Since no passion is more true than another, faith is the truth of nothing.   
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Cuttlefish

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« Reply #83 on: November 10, 2017, 12:10:25 am »
I didn't very much like it, I'm afraid. In addition to prose being hard to understand at parts, I felt like a lot of the storylines hit dead ends. That, and my every favourite character getting killed off made this one the book I least enjoyed.

Bakker wanted us to be dismayed by the ending - don't let him manipulate you, let him know we're too quick to allow us to be Dunyain'd by him - LOVE the ending, toss the book up into the air and shout to the heavens, "Humanity loses, AWESOME!"

Perhaps... Perhaps we should just give in. The world should be destroyed! Rape monsters and genocides for the win!

Dora Vee

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« Reply #84 on: November 10, 2017, 12:22:03 am »
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Perhaps... Perhaps we should just give in. The world should be destroyed! Rape monsters and genocides for the win!

Heh. That's pretty much what I thought when Proyas was "hung out to dry".
Faith is the truth of passion. Since no passion is more true than another, faith is the truth of nothing.   
                          -Ajencis, the fourth analytic of man

Bolivar

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« Reply #85 on: November 10, 2017, 02:25:20 am »
The more I think about it, the angrier I become.

That bad?

I've was wondering where you'd been....

Not that bad!

I also got married in mid-October and was honeymooning for a bit after that, so haven't been able to participate in as much of the followup discussions.

Quote
I'm telling you'all, Bakker is playing you - don't let it happen. Don't let anyone ( including me ) manipulate you! Time to root for the bad guy(s), go Consult! He says those who hated the ending get the books more so then those who didn't ...
 he's outright admitting he's fucking with us.


I'm telling you'all, Bakker is playing you - don't let it happen. Don't let anyone ( including me ) manipulate you! Time to root for the bad guy(s), go Consult! He says those who hated the ending get the books more so then those who didn't ...
 he's outright admitting he's fucking with us.


You might be onto something.

My frustration is a result of that Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast, where he said he's basically had this image of the No-God rising and has been trying to get to that point for the last thirty years. So I feel like he wanted to tell this really dark, epic story that would culminate in this ultra bad ass scene. And then he realized he should probably write a prequel series that took place twenty years earlier to explain how those characters got there.

So basically, in the process of his original vision, he inadvertently wrote one of the greatest fantasy trilogies of all time. I was expecting more for that story, instead of something just building up to a really badass scene. I feel like the curtain finally got pulled back and behind it was a giant mirror of everything we had already seen. Everything about the mythos, the Nonmen, the Inchoroi, the First Apocalypse, the Dunyain, has pretty much been explained since the Thousandfold Thought. There's no hidden agenda behind the Consult's disappearance 300 years ago, the Scholastic Wars, Fanimry, or everything that went down with Moenghus and Maithanet. The story isn't what I thought it would be, which is more my fault than anything, but I do feel the Prince of Nothing portended more than what we got from the Aspect Emperor.

I guess what I really want at this point is an interquel series about the Unification Wars. I really enjoyed the entries about it in the expanded glossary.

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« Reply #86 on: November 10, 2017, 02:58:43 am »
Welcome back, Bolivar :P.

To interject, Bakker is being unnecessarily cagey regarding the content of TNG. It very much seems that he's had the scaffold of TNG's narrative decided for time but, as per TAE, he doesn't know how he wants to put it all together. He's very conscious of what he's seeded across TAE.
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MSJ

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« Reply #87 on: November 10, 2017, 03:12:55 am »
Quote from:  Bolivar
The story isn't what I thought it would be, which is more my fault than anything, but I do feel the Prince of Nothing portended more than what we got from the Aspect Emperor.

Nice to see ya around buddy. And, congrats on being married. Well...have fun and make it as fun as possible. If not, grows stagnant. Just some MSJ pointers. Your Welcome!

The bold, I wholeheartedly agree 100%. But, TAE was just a gripping as PoN, just the style changed. Individual views. And, not a the political B.S.. Cil-Aujus, the Mop, skinnies, deranged Wizard, Sauglish, Ishual, Ishteberenth and much, much more. Great world-building in TAE. Though, I will agree that PiN is my favorite trilogy of all-time. I can't even pick a book, just make an omnibus already. From beginning, to Akka repudiating Kkellhus, As me and the Mandate. Biggest balls move of all-time and everyone thinks him weak. I bet we see just how strong Akka is in TNG.
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« Reply #88 on: November 10, 2017, 12:37:49 pm »
Not that bad!

I also got married in mid-October and was honeymooning for a bit after that, so haven't been able to participate in as much of the followup discussions.

Glad to hear it, on both accounts!

You might be onto something.

My frustration is a result of that Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast, where he said he's basically had this image of the No-God rising and has been trying to get to that point for the last thirty years. So I feel like he wanted to tell this really dark, epic story that would culminate in this ultra bad ass scene. And then he realized he should probably write a prequel series that took place twenty years earlier to explain how those characters got there.

So basically, in the process of his original vision, he inadvertently wrote one of the greatest fantasy trilogies of all time. I was expecting more for that story, instead of something just building up to a really badass scene. I feel like the curtain finally got pulled back and behind it was a giant mirror of everything we had already seen. Everything about the mythos, the Nonmen, the Inchoroi, the First Apocalypse, the Dunyain, has pretty much been explained since the Thousandfold Thought. There's no hidden agenda behind the Consult's disappearance 300 years ago, the Scholastic Wars, Fanimry, or everything that went down with Moenghus and Maithanet. The story isn't what I thought it would be, which is more my fault than anything, but I do feel the Prince of Nothing portended more than what we got from the Aspect Emperor.

Well, for me, I don't know that it's bad the have an end in mind when working toward the series.  I mean, I do agree that PoN is the "better" series, despite TAE having better quality parts throughout.  I think it has to do with striking (to me) the better balance between mystery and narrative.  I think TAE sometimes doubles down on the former and the expense of the latter.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasūrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

TaoHorror

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« Reply #89 on: November 10, 2017, 02:25:43 pm »
You guys are talking me out of loving these books  ;) - I thought they got better and better as it went along. I think your points are valid, but just what resonates is different for every reader. Reminds me of the "war" I popped my head into whether Prometheus was a good movie on Amazon blog ( I enjoyed the movie ), while the criticisms were all valid ( the scientists were more personality than scientist, clearly absurd narratives ), they just didn't matter to me in enjoying the film.

You guys are right, your points are valid - they just didn't "ruin" the story for me. I enjoyed TAE more than PON, thought Bakker was getting better and better as a writer. And his showdowns ( Kellhus v Moe Sr, Kellhus v Mutilated ) are the best showdowns I've ever read/seen. Maybe this is so due to I didn't have any expectations which allowed me to enjoy the ride all the more. I was genuinely surprised with the ending, didn't think the ending was cheap/nonsensical/boring. It was exciting and fun, can't ask for anything more. He could've really screwed us over by having Kellhus be hit by a random chorae on the way into the Ark - at least he made it in there. And the timing of disparate moves to the Ark could've been worse ( everyone pretty much showed up at the same time ). So it could've been a so much worse without even a showdown - at least he gave us that. But I agree with the sentiment on Kellhus v Akka meeting, that was bizarrely lackluster and a legit hit on the story.
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