Do All Skin-Spies Have Male Genitalia?

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MSJ

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« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2017, 07:25:49 pm »
It was also hinted at this being the case with Istryia in the books when Xerius muses that she cutoff their sexual encounters and instead sent him gifts. It was the skin spies way of not being detected.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

TLEILAXU

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« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2017, 08:03:41 pm »
Does that mean that Cnaiür buttsexed the thing posing as Serwë for 20 years? I dunno, I'm still not totally convinced.

Woden

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« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2017, 08:06:42 pm »
The thing called Serwë is a shemale if I remember well its dick is mentioned at least in TTT.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2017, 06:54:55 am by Woden »
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Yellow

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« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2017, 10:14:23 pm »
If they want to have a duck, they have one. If not, they don't.

EDIT: best autocorrect ever.
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Redeagl

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« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2017, 10:38:58 pm »
The forum definitely changed in my absence...
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Woden

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« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2017, 08:14:53 am »
Maybe they have both pendulous dicks and vagina.
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MSJ

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« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2017, 10:18:18 pm »
Please, please any and all, show me any textual proof to the contrary that SS's have anything other than cocks. Please. Then this good be a debate. But, its not there is zero evidence other than SS's have penises.

And, whats even more confusing to me is that you guys who claim otherwise, don't get that this is a thematic choice. All throughout this series, and I think this is why Bakker was so confused when being called out by feminists, he made them this way as a statement, so to say, of the male mind. Meaning, it takes being a male, thus having a cock, in order to act in these ways. I won't claim to know exact what his point was, because I don't, but it's something along those lines. SS's all have penises for a reason, and it's an author's choice behind that. Indeed, it would be a great question, because you'll get something way more articulate than I can offer. Though I think it runs along those lines.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Duskweaver

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« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2017, 12:16:40 pm »
I won't claim to know exact what his point was,
If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say it's a deliberate association of the Consult with the real-world 'New Atheist' movement, who are overwhelmingly male and often quite misogynist. There's a strong undercurrent among New Atheists that associates rationality and objectivity with maleness and the irrationality of spirituality (especially 'New Age woo') with supposedly more female modes of thought.

An all-male clique that wants to use scientific-materialism to scrub the world of any hint of spirituality, because they see said spirituality as literally the worst thing ever? Sound familiar? ;)

There's more to it, of course. Bakker's also playing with our socially-conditioned notions of sexual agency - males as active initiators, females as passive, leading to the question of whether only males can commit rape, that sort of thing. A race of violent rapists feel somehow like they should all have penises, which ideally should cause us to question just why we feel that. Likewise, sranc raping male characters is somehow more shocking to our sensibilities than rape of female characters (which feels somehow 'normal' in war). Which, again, should lead to us asking ourselves why is the former more shocking and the latter just the default?
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TLEILAXU

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« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2017, 12:16:44 pm »
You saying Bakker is trying to make me feel male-guilt? What an SJW cuck!
The reasoning for assuming skin-spies have vaginas is that for anybody trying to infiltrate nations and organizations by impersonating people, it would be very handy having vaginas.

MSJ

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« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2017, 03:16:35 pm »
Quote from:  tleilaxu
You saying Bakker is trying to make me feel male-guilt? What an SJW cuck!
The reasoning for assuming skin-spies have vaginas is that for anybody trying to infiltrate nations and organizations by impersonating people, it would be very handy having vaginas.

That's exactly what I am saying. Bakker and Women thing goes way back. And, there are quotes where Bakker was most offended because people couldn't tell he was a feminist from reading the books. He was pissed off, and that's why all that shit got out of hand. He certainly tries to make men feel things they wouldn't feel in their day-to-day, like rape. It was all done with a purpose, a thematic one, and SS's all having cocks is one of them. Yea, what you propose makes more sense, but it's not true. Again, show me textual evidence that SS's have vaginas. Then will have a real argument here. Otherwise, your adding things to the narrative that just are not there.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

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« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2017, 04:26:37 pm »
If they didn't all have penises at the time of TDTCB, then the Inchoroi really messed up.
Quote from:  Yellow
Of course they can have both. They'd be pretty fucking terrible at pretending to be women if you could see their massive boners through their silk dresses.

Just ask Xerius about that...

So as MSJ keeps asking, does anyone have evidence that they don't?

Seems pretty obvious that they are all male...

Why else would they send this particular spy to replace this particular person if they had one that wasn't so obviously... not matching genitals with the replace-ee.


Does that mean that Cnaiür buttsexed the thing posing as Serwë for 20 years? I dunno, I'm still not totally convinced.

You do realize that Cnaiur is gay, right?  That's one of the major subversion of his uber-barbarian character. He's a smart barbarian that's crazy, yippee - been done. But he's also gay and extremely emotional conflicted and confused about it, self conscious, drives a lot of his self-loathing and his extreme need to the-most-violent-of-all-men, etc. etc. Its basically core to his character identity... So, better question, why would he want to have sex with a female skin spy, and why have you missed this major part of his character for so long?
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Woden

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« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2017, 05:42:07 pm »
You do realize that Cnaiur is gay, right?  That's one of the major subversion of his uber-barbarian character. He's a smart barbarian that's crazy, yippee - been done. But he's also gay and extremely emotional conflicted and confused about it, self conscious, drives a lot of his self-loathing and his extreme need to the-most-violent-of-all-men, etc. etc. Its basically core to his character identity... So, better question, why would he want to have sex with a female skin spy, and why have you missed this major part of his character for so long?

Totally agreed. I've always thought that this was absolutely brilliant. Cnaiur is one of the most complex and best constructed characters ever seen in fantasy books.
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solipsisticurge

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« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2017, 06:58:31 pm »
All male, for the reasons pointed out above by MSJ and Duskweaver.

It's woefully less efficient than having female versions as well, but the Inchoroi are consistently inefficient in their aims (why weapon races instead of a super-plague?), and driven always by a stereotypical male sexual aggressiveness (why do the murder monsters have to be rape monsters as well?).

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« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2017, 10:10:48 pm »
(why do the murder monsters have to be rape monsters as well?).

Sorry to tangent but Bakker's talked about this one a couple times before. In his mind, the most indigestible horror of modern society seems to be the serial killing rapist.
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TLEILAXU

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« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2017, 12:16:10 am »
If they didn't all have penises at the time of TDTCB, then the Inchoroi really messed up.
Quote from:  Yellow
Of course they can have both. They'd be pretty fucking terrible at pretending to be women if you could see their massive boners through their silk dresses.

Just ask Xerius about that...

So as MSJ keeps asking, does anyone have evidence that they don't?

Seems pretty obvious that they are all male...

Why else would they send this particular spy to replace this particular person if they had one that wasn't so obviously... not matching genitals with the replace-ee.


Does that mean that Cnaiür buttsexed the thing posing as Serwë for 20 years? I dunno, I'm still not totally convinced.

You do realize that Cnaiur is gay, right?  That's one of the major subversion of his uber-barbarian character. He's a smart barbarian that's crazy, yippee - been done. But he's also gay and extremely emotional conflicted and confused about it, self conscious, drives a lot of his self-loathing and his extreme need to the-most-violent-of-all-men, etc. etc. Its basically core to his character identity... So, better question, why would he want to have sex with a female skin spy, and why have you missed this major part of his character for so long?
I've heard this before and I don't buy it. It's too strange for a gay man to obsess over Serwe. If you ask me, he's just bisexual.