Mistakes and things that piss off in the series

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Madness

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« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2017, 08:01:19 pm »
There is just not enough Bronze Age fantasy.

I really liked the lore of the Emiorali, or Bronzemen and imagined them to wear something like this:

...

Love it.
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Woden

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« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2017, 09:18:11 pm »
There is just not enough Bronze Age fantasy.

Totally true.
A thing that I specially love about earwan ancient history, be Kiraneas, or Nonmen, or Kunuiri, is their bronze age flavor.
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Sausuna

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« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2017, 01:03:36 pm »
Even if you are a fucking übermensch berserker dûnyain warrior-mage you will be cut down by a filthy peasant with a scythe before you can unsheathe your blade.
I don't know, if there is anyone I'd forgive for this, it'd be Kellhus or a Dunyain. Most Dunyain don't need a sword to kill a filthy peasant with a scythe anyway. I need to recheck the scene where he uses it (like once) in TUC, but I don't think he had any issues actually getting it out.

Woden

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« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2017, 01:13:35 pm »
Look at the videos, in a combat situation you cannot unsheathe your sword quickly enough if you carries on the back (and even if you can it is not an easy thing to do, I have prove it myself). If you're fighting you want have your weapons ready to use. It's a question of economy of movements. If you can use 1 second you don't want to use 5.
In short, having a sword in the back is dumb, having it in the hip is smart. If a dûnyain is indeed smart he will carry a sword on the hip, where he can use it quickly and deadly.
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Sausuna

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« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2017, 02:01:37 pm »
Look at the videos, in a combat situation you cannot unsheathe your sword quickly enough if you carries on the back (and even if you can it is not an easy thing to do, I have prove it myself). If you're fighting you want have your weapons ready to use. It's a question of economy of movements. If you can use 1 second you don't want to use 5.
In short, having a sword in the back is dumb, having it in the hip is smart. If a dûnyain is indeed smart he will carry a sword on the hip, where he can use it quickly and deadly.
I mean, the videos show a human unable to do it with much dexterity. Like I said, if there is anyone I'd forgive this for, it'd be a Dunyain. Point being, it never hampers Kellhus when he needs to use it in that manner (and in reflection, I can't think of him using the sword in actual combat, just against a disabled Inchoroi, unless there are more descriptions from TPON). Heck, for all we know, the reason he wears it like that is to look cool, to win people over more.

The economy of movements only matters if it actually comes into play at any point. Seeing as it literally never does (that I recall), then the possible idea of looking could could outweigh it.

Woden

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« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2017, 06:32:29 pm »
Obviously the skin-spies with their cartilaginous "skeleton" could unsheathe their swords from the back, but would they? They would be faster to unsheathe from the hip in any case.

And there is the problem to sheath the sword again, nearly impossible if you have the scabbard fixed on the shoulder. And a very ridiculous thing to watch.

I don't remember a description of how Kellhus carried his sword in the first book. When did Bakker succumb to the stupid cliché?
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 06:34:25 pm by Woden »
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Madness

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« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2017, 06:41:10 pm »
Right from the get-go by your count, Woden. Kellhus has his sword over his shoulder as far back TDTCB - though we could argue on Bakker's behalf that the sword is made of the second or third best steel in Earwa and therefore may have lighter weight properties. Still as likely to embedded your sword in your cerebellum as you are to attack ;).

Also, the Skin-Spies are best imagined as horrifying octopus when they let go, a la Sarcellus the Second in TWP and Soma in WLW. Because their only bones are those in their false faces, they are allowed to toss their limbs around in... Silent Hill-type ways at the very least.

And very fast...
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 06:43:11 pm by Madness »
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Woden

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« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2017, 06:59:14 pm »
Thanks for the info, Madness.

But the weight of the blade is not the most relevant question in the best way to unsheathe it. It will always be faster doing so from the hip.

Anyway, a longsword doesn't have a cumbersome weight in any case, I have two of them and their weight is about 1,5 kg. And a real two-handed sword (a zweihander) could weight about 2-3 kg - you can see beautiful examples in the web of Albion Swords, my favorite ones.
The zweihander was not usually carried on the hip in a scabbard in normal life because it was too long and it was just carried to be used - be in battle or single combat.




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Madness

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« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2017, 07:17:49 pm »
If you consider the arm and the torso, their is a more or less ideal way to carry and unsheathe a sword.

And thank you. I'm a strange individual but carrying a sheath into battle is not recognized enough in fiction. I happen to think a short about someone losing their sheath in battle and then having to backtrack would be great. Like... I killed them there, and them there...
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Woden

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« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2017, 07:32:05 pm »
Focusing in XVth century (when the longer swords were specially in use), in battle if your sword is your main weapon and not a side arm you can carry it without scabbard to avoid the problem that you mention. The great zeihander can be carried in your arms leaning on the shoulder as you would carry a halberd, a longsword can be carried that way too. And an average arming sword (one-handed) just in your hand.



But we must not forget that swords in that period were usually side arms, the main weapons could be a pike or a bow for common soldiers.

« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 07:41:16 pm by Woden »
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« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2017, 07:40:35 pm »
Funny as I see that as so much more badass than a gun/sword on your back.

He looks confident, even if he might get cut down soon ;).
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Woden

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« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2017, 07:49:59 pm »
The Landsknecht were truly badasses.




See how they carry the zeihander. And they carry a katzbalger (or a messer) in the hip.

But my favorite ones are the knights or man-at-arms with gothic armor (I have one suit, lol).

« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 08:17:43 pm by Woden »
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« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2017, 07:56:27 pm »
You're basically a time period tank ;).

And I do mean analogous to the armoured vehicle in the modern world.
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citizensnips

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« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2017, 08:00:06 pm »
Wait, how do the Dûnyain even make their super awesome swords? Do they have their own super localized mining operation set up, or the most efficient recycling program in history?

I admit, every time I ask a question about the Dûnyain I think of 10 more about the logistics of their whole operation. 

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« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2017, 08:11:03 pm »
Quote from:  citizensnips
Wait, how do the Dûnyain even make their super awesome swords? Do they have their own super localized mining operation set up, or the most efficient recycling program in history?

I admit, every time I ask a question about the Dûnyain I think of 10 more about the logistics of their whole operation.

Bakker said in the Q&A after TGO that he had a whole section about the ins and outs of the Dunyain that he never did put in the books or get into because it's not part of the story. Ishual was self sufficient and that's all you need to know really.
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