Perspective and answers to open questions

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profgrape

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« on: September 01, 2017, 07:57:19 pm »
In PON and TAE, many of the biggest questions were answered in the confrontations between Dunyain: Kellhus and Moneghus; and Kellhus and the Mutilated.  His was the perspective of revelation.

Given that there are still a number of open questions in TNG, how do you all think we'll get the answers in a post-Kellhus world?  From whom (and through whom) are we going to get these answers, especially from the Mutilated?

MSJ

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« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2017, 08:49:05 pm »
Quote from:  Profgrape
Given that there are still a number of open questions in TNG, how do you all think we'll get the answers in a post-Kellhus world?

Kellhus is dead.....but not done. ;) 
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Redeagl

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« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2017, 12:34:05 am »
Quote from:  Profgrape
Given that there are still a number of open questions in TNG, how do you all think we'll get the answers in a post-Kellhus world?

Kellhus is dead.....but not done. ;) 
I don't think he will be talking to important people as if he had run the whole thing anymore.... That status is not his. It's time for our hero to shine, one of only two characters to appear in TDTCB and survive all the way..... Drusas Achamian.
“The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before?”

- Chronicler of the Chroniclers

MSJ

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« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2017, 04:48:45 am »
Quote from:  Redeagl
I don't think he will be talking to important people as if he had run the whole thing anymore.... That status is not his. It's time for our hero to shine, one of only two characters to appear in TDTCB and survive all the way..... Drusas Achamian.

I'd love for Akka to be the hero. I just don't see it playing out that way....entirely.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Redeagl

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« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2017, 01:30:40 pm »
Quote from:  Redeagl
I don't think he will be talking to important people as if he had run the whole thing anymore.... That status is not his. It's time for our hero to shine, one of only two characters to appear in TDTCB and survive all the way..... Drusas Achamian.

I'd love for Akka to be the hero. I just don't see it playing out that way....entirely.
Eärwa needs a Mandate schoolman to save it from an Apocalypse. Like the First one. Who better than Akka?  Come, MSJ, you need to embrace the Kellhus hate. Soon, young MSJ will be one of us and the "Kellhus is still alive!!!" rebellion will be crushed.
“The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before?”

- Chronicler of the Chroniclers

Madness

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« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2017, 06:10:00 pm »
Malowebi's head is still just hanging on Salt-Kellhus in the Golden Room?

Also, I think it's probably going to be a pretty interesting juxtaposition going forward regarding the Mutilated, especially, as the reader knows about them but the characters do not...
« Last Edit: September 02, 2017, 06:36:53 pm by Madness »
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Yellow

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« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2017, 07:08:11 pm »
Malowebi's head is still just hanging on Salt-Kellhus in the Golden Room?

Also, I think it's probably going to be a pretty interesting juxtaposition going forward regarding the Mutilated, especially, as the reader knows about them but the characters do not...

On a tangent... I hate it in fiction (books or films) when the reader knows more than the characters. I spend the entire time waiting for them to catch up.

I think the main reason the second half of the Wheel of Time fell away in dramatic tension was primarily a result of this very problem. 
« Last Edit: September 02, 2017, 07:11:01 pm by Yellow »
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Duskweaver

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« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2017, 07:11:30 pm »
Also, I think it's probably going to be a pretty interesting juxtaposition going forward regarding the Mutilated, especially, as the reader knows about them but the characters do not...
On a similar note, the characters presumably all believe Kellhus is in the Carapace. The only people who know it's Kelmomas in there are in the Golden Room. I wonder if that will be significant?
"Then I looked, and behold, a Whirlwind came out of the North..." - Ezekiel 1:4

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Duskweaver

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« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2017, 07:13:20 pm »
On a tangent... I hate it in fiction (books or films) when the reader knows more than the characters.
But the reader/watcher always knows more than some characters, unless it's a single-viewpoint work. Seems a weird thing to get upset about.
"Then I looked, and behold, a Whirlwind came out of the North..." - Ezekiel 1:4

"Two things that brand one a coward: using violence when it is not necessary; and shrinking from it when it is."

Madness

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« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2017, 07:33:07 pm »
Also, I think it's probably going to be a pretty interesting juxtaposition going forward regarding the Mutilated, especially, as the reader knows about them but the characters do not...

On a similar note, the characters presumably all believe Kellhus is in the Carapace. The only people who know it's Kelmomas in there are in the Golden Room. I wonder if that will be significant?

Indeed. It should certainly colour all discourse regarding the No-God 2.0 going forward.
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Duskweaver

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« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2017, 07:59:36 pm »
With any other author, I would confidently predict that discovering what's in the box would be the key to defeating the No-God. But this is Bakker, so I suspect the revelation, if it comes at all, will turn out to be entirely unhelpful. :P
"Then I looked, and behold, a Whirlwind came out of the North..." - Ezekiel 1:4

"Two things that brand one a coward: using violence when it is not necessary; and shrinking from it when it is."

MSJ

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« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2017, 08:05:35 pm »
Great movie! That scene crushed me.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

TLEILAXU

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« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2017, 12:24:58 am »
I suspect/hope Meppa will be a POV character detailing what's happening in the Three Seas.

MSJ

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« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2017, 01:10:22 am »
In the little Skype session we just had, I suggested that from one of Akka's "new" dreams that the heron spear isn't what killed TNG. I would theorize that Mimara or Meppa speaking with God's own voice (Psukhe) would be its undoing.

[EDIT Madness: Fixed.]
« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 07:37:02 pm by Madness »
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Redeagl

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« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2017, 01:57:10 am »
In the little Skype session we just had, I suggested that from one of Anna's "new" dreams that the heron spear isn't what killed TNG. I would theorize that Mimara or Meppa speaking with God's own voice (Psukhe) would be its undoing.
It wasn't Skype nor did you say anything about Anna's dreams....

Serious reply: Meppa killing the new NG also crossed my mind. Remember that the characters think that the NG is Kellhus.
“The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before?”

- Chronicler of the Chroniclers