Perspective and answers to open questions

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Madness

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« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2017, 07:37:31 pm »
*Akka, I so beg the Almighty Wilshire and Dear Madness to fix this feature to edit from my phone, and quote for that matter... If not possible, I guess I start proofreading my dann posts. SMH

We're trying, friend.

Though, rule of thumb, always read your posts before posting ;).
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Duskweaver

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« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2017, 11:38:12 am »
Though, rule of thumb, always read your posts before posting ;).
Read them, and then copy them to your clipboard, because the forum is hungry and likes to randomly eat posts. Especially the long, insightful ones you spent ages composing. Speaking from bitter experience here. :)
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TaoHorror

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« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2017, 06:46:08 pm »
I think POV from The Mutilated and TNG would be so cool in the next series. Akka's a bitch, he ain't saving no one, let alone himself ( here's hopin' he gets "run" over on his way out of town ). Mimara, Crab, Meppa, Moe and Serwa ( if she's alive ) ... all good candidates to do what needs doin'. Hell, I would even take Aurax to save the day over Akka. He's all Dear me, I'm the harbinger of the Apocalypse, waaaaaaa! Do something about it, you old fuck - don't recall you jumping in to fight - coulda wipped out some nasty Gnostic shit on the Horde/Bashrags, but noooo, think I'll just be sittin' by the ladies, crying in my beer. Fuck you, man. Bakker said he was bashed up, not able to even walk well ( hence, not thinking of taking Mog out when he was presented without Chorae protection ), but if he was already fighting he could've just sent his pretty geometries on over to the Carapace and be done with it.

Oh, wait, that would mean no more books - ok, Akka, I forgive ya, I need more of this depraved ecstasy to keep me going.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 06:49:01 pm by TaoHorror »
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Redeagl

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« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2017, 04:21:04 pm »
A Mutilated PoV would be intriguing, but too revealing?
“The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before?”

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TaoHorror

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« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2017, 05:31:26 pm »
Ah, maybe - could be done with "art". Don't need them mulling over the grand plan to yield so much, but at least some flashbacks to the Ishual battle ( technically a "war" if we consider the Dunyain hold to be a "country", it was sovereign ). That whole Shrieker v Dunyain labyrinthine thing would've been tasty to read about.
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Madness

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« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2017, 02:10:52 am »
Ah, maybe - could be done with "art". Don't need them mulling over the grand plan to yield so much, but at least some flashbacks to the Ishual battle ( technically a "war" if we consider the Dunyain hold to be a "country", it was sovereign ).

This is the quote I was looking for in another thread but it serves a purpose here. Apparently, their POV was already featured in TDTCB drafts (or at least that's what I took from it):

Did we see any of the Mutilated in previous books?

Not that I recall, no. I feel muddy on this simply because the original beginning of TDTCB featured a lot more facetime with the brethren.

That whole Shrieker v Dunyain labyrinthine thing would've been tasty to read about.

Yeah, that's definitely a short story he should feature...
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solipsisticurge

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« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2017, 07:20:38 pm »
A Mutilated PoV would be intriguing, but too revealing?
It would be silly, but perhaps they keep Malowebi around on the salty emperor statue commemorating Resumption, and he can continue his role as eyes and ears without comprehension or explanation. Or Aurax POV could serve the same purpose, again with limited ability to grasp what was being conveyed.

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profgrape

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« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2017, 04:31:16 pm »
A Mutilated PoV would be intriguing, but too revealing?
It would be silly, but perhaps they keep Malowebi around on the salty emperor statue commemorating Resumption, and he can continue his role as eyes and ears without comprehension or explanation. Or Aurax POV could serve the same purpose, again with limited ability to grasp what was being conveyed.

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I'm hoping that Malowebi will continue as a POV (I could never get enough "curse Likaro" insults).  But given what happened with Ajokli, you'd think that the Mutilated wouldn't be too keen on keeping the Decapitants in place.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if Crabicus will be the POV that confronts the Mutilated.  He could wind up being the only person who heads toward Golgatterath at this point.

solipsisticurge

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« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2017, 05:19:51 pm »
Definitely possible. Would also make for a nice inversion of history; the last bastard Anasurimbor stumbles upon the fortress redoubt of the Dunyain, a distorted reflection two millennia in the making. Not sure how it ties into Cranny's story being cut off from the rest of the series, though - having the final confrontation with the big bad isn't really isolated from the larger story. Unless we assume Bakker was lying or utilizing legalistic truth-telling.

Since TNG only exists to assuage readers and provide a more traditional narrative closure, Moenghus striking down the Consult with the Scylvendi might be the most satisfying. Demon Cnaiur laughs as his son (his PROOF) rids the world of the menace that ruined his entire life.

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Madness

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« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2017, 01:24:51 am »
Definitely possible. Would also make for a nice inversion of history; the last bastard Anasurimbor stumbles upon the fortress redoubt of the Dunyain, a distorted reflection two millennia in the making. Not sure how it ties into Crabby's story being cut off from the rest of the series, though - having the final confrontation with the big bad isn't really isolated from the larger story. Unless we assume Bakker was lying or utilizing legalistic truth-telling.

I think Bakker just hasn't made some structural narrative decisions yet. He seems pretty set on what he wants to tell just not how he wants to tell it. I don't think the Crabikiad will be separate from the established set/character sandbox so much as he seems to be uncertain about the Boy's appeal.

As it stands, he's already admitted that the Boy survives, Meppa survives, a portion of the Great Ordeal retreats and probably includes Serwa (thus likely Kayutas), Achamian, Esmenet, and Mimara. Moenghus seems to escape unscathed with the entirety of the Scylvendi to side as he will. Zeum is definitely still to play a part and Ciphrang-Malowebi and Malowebi's head are out there. I can't tell from all that if Bakker thinks the Boy just isn't as interesting as the rest of the arcs or if it can't be successfully interleaved with those arcs or those other arcs can't stand alone, etc, etc.

Since TNG only exists to assuage readers and provide a more traditional narrative closure.

I disagree with this entirely. Bakker's had TNG's arcs planned and at least the last scenes and lines of TNG drafted for time. I think the problem for us, as MG and FB have offered to me separately regarding TNG as humanity's swan song, is that I can't imagine what Bakker's readerly catharsis might look like, which as per TUC's end has effected readers and the possible need for cognitive closure already suggests.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 01:53:47 am by Madness »
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solipsisticurge

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« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2017, 02:27:42 am »
I was referring to what I'd read somewhere, that the series was originally going to conclude in its entirety with the end of TUC, but Bakker later decided against this. That the purpose of additional story is to provide more traditionally satisfying closure is (possibly incorrect) inference on my part.

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TLEILAXU

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« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2017, 02:46:24 am »
The only closure I need is knowing what happened to my beloved Shaeönanra.

Madness

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« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2017, 06:43:19 pm »
I was referring to what I'd read somewhere, that the series was originally going to conclude in its entirety with the end of TUC, but Bakker later decided against this. That the purpose of additional story is to provide more traditionally satisfying closure is (possibly incorrect) inference on my part.

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Yeah, I mean neither Bakker nor Overlook has done that misconception any favours but it seems to me a version of internet goobly-gook/telephone game/chinese whispers/whatever.

Wilshire and I have quoted the links to cite a number of times around the forum so I'd have to go digging but as far as I can tell the only comment Bakker made about TUC "completing his original [17-year old] vision" or whathaveyou was on his blog in the past couple years. Bakker's been talking about The-Book-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named and then The-Series-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named as far back as 04/05 when TDTCB/TWP were coming out. By my reading, we should attribute the addition of TNG to the "original vision" as contemporary of before TDTCB was ever published (which, holy shit, was when Bakker was in his early thirties)... a narrative addition he made between the ages of 17 and 35, not between 35-50.

I think, too many of the small-subset of readers online perceive TNG as superfluous while the above accounting clearly argues otherwise.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 06:49:02 pm by Madness »
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TaoHorror

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« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2017, 03:16:13 pm »
Is it possible Kel saw his doom in that room? Bringing the head as a trojan horse type move, leaving an operative in his wake to finish the job. Why else bring him? Seems like a tight plan to introduce a spy into the room, otherwise why have him? My first read was that was why he brought him, as backup.
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profgrape

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« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2017, 12:04:43 pm »
Is it possible Kel saw his doom in that room? Bringing the head as a trojan horse type move, leaving an operative in his wake to finish the job. Why else bring him? Seems like a tight plan to introduce a spy into the room, otherwise why have him? My first read was that was why he brought him, as backup.
Agreed.  While Kellhus' vision was clouded, he always liked to have a lot of pieces in reserve.

At first I thought Malo was along to record what happened; he is the Witness, after all. But once we saw that he couldn't really communicate, that was out.