How tall are the Horns?

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Sausuna

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« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2017, 05:23:54 pm »
Plus anybody that's Compelled could be freed of Compulsion by the touch of a chorae; that's risky.

I don't know that this is fact?
Well, the glossary entry on Chorae lays out the below.
"Chorae are extraordinary in that they render their bearer immune to all sorcerous Cants and instantly kill any sorcerer who comes into contact with them."

One might be able to extrapolate that the immunity to sorcerous Cants might cancel out any ongoing Cants.

SmilerLoki

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« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2017, 05:50:53 pm »
One might be able to extrapolate that the immunity to sorcerous Cants might cancel out any ongoing Cants.
But it's unclear if Compulsion would be an ongoing Cant instead of a one-time alteration.

SuJuroit

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« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2017, 07:04:32 pm »
Quote
One might be able to extrapolate that the immunity to sorcerous Cants might cancel out any ongoing Cants.

Right.  In the way that chorae can cancel Wards.

Quote
But it's unclear if Compulsion would be an ongoing Cant instead of a one-time alteration.

There's so much about Compulsion that RSB doesn't get into.  Is it ongoing, requiring "maintenance" on the part of the sorcerer, sort of like a Ward or a Surrilec (sp?) Point or is it a one-time deal?  Does it leave a Mark on the person Compulsed?  Based on the reactions of the people we've seen victimized by them, Xinemus and Moenghus Jr., my personal take is that while the Cants can have lingering psychological aftereffects, the actual compulsion is ongoing and requires a certain amount of maintenance on the part of the sorcerer, which could then be broken by the touch of a chorae.

If Compulsion was a one-shot deal that left no Mark and couldn't be removed with the touch of a chorae, there's little reason to believe Sorcerers wouldn't rule the entire Three Seas. 

SmilerLoki

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« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2017, 07:20:14 pm »
There is also the question of how subtle can Compulsion be.

Madness

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« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2017, 04:18:54 pm »
There's so much about Compulsion that RSB doesn't get into.  Is it ongoing, requiring "maintenance" on the part of the sorcerer, sort of like a Ward or a Surrilec (sp?) Point or is it a one-time deal?  Does it leave a Mark on the person Compulsed?  Based on the reactions of the people we've seen victimized by them, Xinemus and Moenghus Jr., my personal take is that while the Cants can have lingering psychological aftereffects, the actual compulsion is ongoing and requires a certain amount of maintenance on the part of the sorcerer, which could then be broken by the touch of a chorae.

If Compulsion was a one-shot deal that left no Mark and couldn't be removed with the touch of a chorae, there's little reason to believe Sorcerers wouldn't rule the entire Three Seas. 

One small point of contention - I don't think Moenghus Jr. was ever Compelled, I think he was just tortured with the Quyan Agonies. Different psychological ramifications.

But I think you're asking all the right questions. As per Xinemus, I think the best explanation is by Achamian to Esmenet in TTT. It's like the Compulsions force the brain to process its neural architecture differently and, as per Achamian's rivers analogy, sometimes the person recovers their original configuration (personality/whathaveyou), sometimes they don't - you see it in individual's with complications from brain degeneration, disease, or injury a fair bit.
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Wilshire

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« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2018, 08:29:50 pm »
Re: cants of compulsion.

I'd expect that the truely worrisome part of the cants is that you feel like you did the things you did.
Meaning, even after its done - a la Xin - you still can't distinguish what you did by choice and what you were compelled to do.

I imagine Kellhus could inspire some truly spectacular scenes in the minds eye if he layered his regular speech with compulsions. He'd only need the briefest of seconds to do this, and he could simply ask anyone he intends to cast on to put down their chorae.
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TaoHorror

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« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2018, 04:03:05 am »
I imagine Kellhus could inspire some truly spectacular scenes in the minds eye if he layered his regular speech with compulsions. He'd only need the briefest of seconds to do this, and he could simply ask anyone he intends to cast on to put down their chorae.

Wouldn't the chorae protect them from the cant?
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« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2018, 12:06:29 pm »
I imagine Kellhus could inspire some truly spectacular scenes in the minds eye if he layered his regular speech with compulsions. He'd only need the briefest of seconds to do this, and he could simply ask anyone he intends to cast on to put down their chorae.

Wouldn't the chorae protect them from the cant?

It should.  I thought Wilshire meant to sort of put in a "root kit" of sorts via Compulsion that could then be opened by regular means even if they had a Chorae, but now I see he probably didn't, so I am not so sure what we are really discussing...
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Wilshire

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« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2018, 12:40:43 pm »
I was pointing out two things. One, that Kellhus could simply ask or disarm someone holding a chorae if he wanted to use a CoC - with either mundane or dunyanic means. Two, that the compulsions Kellhus could weave would be stupendously powerful. So much so that regardless of what the person did afterwards, their mind would be permanently altered.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

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« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2018, 02:58:11 pm »
So a Chorae does not protect against a Cant of Compulsion?
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Wilshire

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« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2018, 03:23:48 pm »
So a Chorae does not protect against a Cant of Compulsion?
It most certainly would if one was wearing it. But the effects, once completed, aren't entirely magical as far as I can tell. The person cannot distinguish between what they did themselves, and what they were compelled to do, even after a chorae is touched. It feels the same (think The Argument), so whether its love, or anger, or whatever else, the effects of the actions and feelings can be more/less permanent. And that's just with an average schoolman casting your run-of-the-mill Compulsions.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 03:29:04 pm by Wilshire »
One of the other conditions of possibility.

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« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2018, 12:46:19 pm »
So a Chorae does not protect against a Cant of Compulsion?
It most certainly would if one was wearing it. But the effects, once completed, aren't entirely magical as far as I can tell. The person cannot distinguish between what they did themselves, and what they were compelled to do, even after a chorae is touched. It feels the same (think The Argument), so whether its love, or anger, or whatever else, the effects of the actions and feelings can be more/less permanent. And that's just with an average schoolman casting your run-of-the-mill Compulsions.

Right, I mean, if one owns a Chorae, it seems stupendously silly to not wear it all the time, otherwise, what use is it even, really?

But I don't think we really disagree, a CoC can create a "root kit" in someone's mind for later use, I just don't think it'd be too effective versus any smart, diligent person with a Chorae who doesn't specifically act remiss in protecting themselves.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

Wilshire

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« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2018, 01:12:32 pm »
Oh, I was thinking it had a variety of uses.
The sort of virus installation for later use, a la Knife of Many Hands, being one option, and the easiest to cancel out with a chorae. Think virus scan that removes maleware.

But another option would be to compel the subject to do something right now, a la Xin. This would be unaffected by a chorae post-event, as the lasting mental effects of doing the action would be mundane rather than magical.

In that way, I think Kellhus could easily convince a particularly important individual to put down their chorae, manipulate the piss out of them via CoC and Dunyainic Mageries, then send them on their way.
Its super convoluted, nothing we have seen really suggested that anyone he had that much time with could withstand his will anyway ... But maybe for a lesser man it'd have more use.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

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« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2018, 02:38:38 pm »
I see what you are saying.  I think in the long run, it's possible, but probably not really overall worth the effort it would require.

It's quicker to just dupe a bunch of people into killing the ones you don't agree with or are in your way.
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« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2018, 12:09:30 am »
Quote from:  H
Right, I mean, if one owns a Chorae, it seems stupendously silly to not wear it all the time, otherwise, what use is it even, really?

Yea, never understood the scenes where Cnaüir was almost fried by sorcery because he has to find his chorae in his girdle. Would be much simpler to attach to a necklace or braclet that kept it in contact with the skin constantly.
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