Is Earwa doomed?

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TLEILAXU

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« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2017, 07:04:09 pm »
@TaoHorror

I guess because they see him as the end. They can't see the NG, so they go after the one who brings about the end. That's all I got.

Or they're going after Ajokli. :-)
Yep. It's explicitly said by the one eyed Dûnyain before Ajokli implodes him.

Redeagl

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« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2017, 09:24:16 pm »
The easy answer is yes. But, myself, I think those quotes on the No-God and what the gods can and cannot see, to be a red herring.

It could easily be that by some other means the Gods (100) cease to exist. "Kellhus is dead but not done." He could rewrite the Outside or someone else for that matter. So, no, I don't believe Earwa to be doomed. As others have said, if the 3rd series is just the details of the NG winning and the end of civilization, the story would have been better to just have been done at TUC.
No.
“The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before?”

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TaoHorror

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« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2017, 10:51:36 pm »
The easy answer is yes. But, myself, I think those quotes on the No-God and what the gods can and cannot see, to be a red herring.

It could easily be that by some other means the Gods (100) cease to exist. "Kellhus is dead but not done." He could rewrite the Outside or someone else for that matter. So, no, I don't believe Earwa to be doomed. As others have said, if the 3rd series is just the details of the NG winning and the end of civilization, the story would have been better to just have been done at TUC.
No.

Yes.
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TLEILAXU

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« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2017, 12:05:25 pm »
The easy answer is yes. But, myself, I think those quotes on the No-God and what the gods can and cannot see, to be a red herring.

It could easily be that by some other means the Gods (100) cease to exist. "Kellhus is dead but not done." He could rewrite the Outside or someone else for that matter. So, no, I don't believe Earwa to be doomed. As others have said, if the 3rd series is just the details of the NG winning and the end of civilization, the story would have been better to just have been done at TUC.
No.

Yes.
No. The whole point is that the story now mirrors our own "crash-space".
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 12:29:27 pm by tleilaxu »

Wilshire

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« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2017, 01:51:29 pm »
You can always hop off the train at any moment ;) . I'll continue to enjoy the story as it unfolds, and try to prevent my own expectations getting in the way.

Also, what's with the low effort postings? You guys trying to up your post counts for some reason?
One of the other conditions of possibility.

MSJ

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« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2017, 02:38:37 pm »
Quote from:  Wilshire
You can always hop off the train at any moment ;) . I'll continue to enjoy the story as it unfolds, and try to prevent my own expectations getting in the way.

Also, what's with the low effort postings? You guys trying to up your post counts for some reason?

I read the story no matter what, and you know this, maaaan! But, I just don't see the point thematically or narratively in showing us humanity dying off by being fucked by Sranc and tossed in the Whirlwind. We know that's what will happen, if the NG can't be stopped. Is rather see some hope from Mr. Bakker.

And, i never give low effort posts. Maximum effort....always. :)
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

MSJ

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« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2017, 02:50:23 pm »
Quote from:  tleilaxu
No. The whole point is that the story now mirrors our own "crash-space".

Bakker stars that the Ark was the crash space. The Inchoroi have went their own little crash space or what have you, I don't see that being the case. Earwa is not technology advanced to have this crash space.

In along for the journey, no matter what. But, I wholeheartedly agree with that blogger that Bakker does believe in humanity and will use the last series to show that.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Wilshire

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« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2017, 03:24:58 pm »
Yeah I don't see that as the case at all.

Crash space isn't just technology, its the inability of our brains to keep up with changing circumstances due to our low-data prediction processes that we use to interact with the world around us. Technology is just the most obvious and fastest-acting, but crash space can be achieved otherwise as well.

Bakker says little about how humanity can pull through. He's the doom and gloom type, and seems to think that we're rapidly approaching "too late" territory. Much closer to 'inevitable collapse' than holding out hope that humans will band together and save ourselves. Not only that, but much of what he says denies that that is even possible - we are shackled to our genetic and evolutionary inheritance.

We've hit an evolutionary dead end in terms of survivability. In fact, maybe we've hit upon the dead end of evolution: that the kind of animal survival that leads to superiority necessarily selects for low data prediction mechanisms that eventually leads to an inevitable downfall when deep-data processing is required in a high technology interactive civilization. The animal instincts that allowed us to become what we are is the very thing that prevents us from proceeding much further. We created a world that we can't persist in because the cognitive functions required for it are absent - and it will take too long for us to adapt properly, to evolve and select for humans with the kind of temperament and functions required to live in a system that moves and changes as fast as it does.

Michio Kaku somewhat famously suggested that the reason we might never see an advanced space-faring type 1, 2, or 3 civilization is because the transition from 0 to 1 destroys the species. He goes on to suggest that the reason for that is because an intelligent species that holds within itself both the power for total destruction and total permanence invariably ends up destroying itself before it can develop the necessary social function to operate cohesively and collaboratively as a planet-wide society.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

Dora Vee

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« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2017, 03:36:34 pm »
Honestly, I think Earwa will be doomed, but not because of the No God, but because of the actions of other humans.
Faith is the truth of passion. Since no passion is more true than another, faith is the truth of nothing.   
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TaoHorror

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« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2017, 03:51:20 pm »
Honestly, I think Earwa will be doomed, but not because of the No God, but because of the actions of other humans.

Aaaah, I think you may have nailed it - I said something to that effect ( not so nicely succinct as you've done here ), with humans "helping" TNG reduce the number faster so the remaining can continue safely under the 144,000 number, but my point is too simplistic and therefore inane as whatever the "mechanism", it won't suddenly stop at that number with the momentum so strong it'll go well past that before/if it burns out.

Bakker is going to come up with something rich beyond just whether Earwa is doomed or not. If humanity survives with only 100,000, that meets the criteria of "doomed", but not done.
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profgrape

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« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2017, 03:59:14 pm »
In along for the journey, no matter what. But, I wholeheartedly agree with that blogger that Bakker does believe in humanity and will use the last series to show that.

Of course, "belief in humanity" could mean an ending where "And thus the One-Hundred Forty-Four Thousand began the work of rebuilding humanity in a Meaningless world."
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 04:01:21 pm by profgrape »

Dora Vee

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« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2017, 04:22:42 pm »
I actually picture an ending similar to how Dark Souls ends. Not without some hope, but still pretty damned bleak. Especially Dark Souls III.
Faith is the truth of passion. Since no passion is more true than another, faith is the truth of nothing.   
                          -Ajencis, the fourth analytic of man

TaoHorror

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« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2017, 04:24:29 pm »
I actually picture an ending similar to how Dark Souls ends. Not without some hope, but still pretty damned bleak. Especially Dark Souls III.

Ha, ha - like EVERYONE dies except The Consult and it's up to the Mutilated to restart humanity alone ( along with a few women they fatten up ).
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Dora Vee

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« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2017, 04:41:36 pm »
And they turn the world into something like this:

Shijima

"All at one with the world."

Shijima is the Reason of Hikawa. It is based on stillness and oneness. It is a world of perfect harmony, without self, without passion, without conflict, without destruction. Individuality is eradicated and there is simply a collective inner peace in which everyone is equal to God. This collective functions as cogs in the giant, stable machine that is the universe. It is a lawful reason that is in someways related to the concept of Nirvana. Its demonic sponsor is Ahriman and is based on the Law Alignment of the previous Shin Megami Tensei games.

From here: http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Reason

SMT: Nocturne is also a fantastic game.
Faith is the truth of passion. Since no passion is more true than another, faith is the truth of nothing.   
                          -Ajencis, the fourth analytic of man

MSJ

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« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2017, 05:10:29 pm »
Quote from:  profgrape
Of course, "belief in humanity" could mean an ending where "And thus the One-Hundred Forty-Four Thousand began the work of rebuilding humanity in a Meaningless world."

Not what I was going for, but ok, I get your humor.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,