What Happens If China Makes First Contact?

  • 29 Replies
  • 430 Views

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Madness

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Conversational Batman
  • Posts: 4928
  • Strength on the Journey - Journey Well
    • View Profile
    • The Second Apocalypse
« on: November 09, 2017, 03:21:11 pm »
What Happens If China Makes First Contact? - with commentary by Liu Cixin, the author of The Three-Body Problem.
The Existential Scream
Weaponizing the Warrior Pose - Declare War Inwardly
carnificibus: multus sanguis fluit
Die Better
The Theory-Killer

TaoHorror

  • *
  • Great Name
  • ****
  • Posts: 428
  • Blueberry Psūkhe Sorcerer
    • View Profile
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2017, 05:59:51 pm »
It's screwing with us Americans big time, but it's time to accept there's another power who will make massive contributions to civilization beyond our country. Of course, many other countries are contributing awesome stuff every day, but Americans feel we're the overall leader of world progress. It simply is not a big deal ( in the sense it's a detriment to America ) if China "hears" first and whats more, it's a contribution to humanity that they've built this thing. Its high time for America to recede our paranoia of others encroaching on our self-perceived world dominance and welcome and cherish other nations' contributions
Remember to brush before bed

Madness

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Conversational Batman
  • Posts: 4928
  • Strength on the Journey - Journey Well
    • View Profile
    • The Second Apocalypse
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2017, 04:35:30 pm »
You had your high ground. It was a good 243 years.
The Existential Scream
Weaponizing the Warrior Pose - Declare War Inwardly
carnificibus: multus sanguis fluit
Die Better
The Theory-Killer

BeardFisher-King

  • *
  • Kijneta
  • ***
  • Posts: 268
  • The Trackless Steppe
    • View Profile
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2017, 12:51:41 pm »
Liu's "dark-forest" strategy for optimizing civilizational survival is beyond interesting. "Hide well, cleanse well." It's the opposite of shouting "Hey, we're here!" to the universe.
"The heart of any other, because it has a will, would remain forever mysterious."

-from "Snow Falling On Cedars", by David Guterson

jamesA01

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2017, 04:46:34 pm »
The problem is that it wouldn't be enough to wake the west up from its senility. People in the west have convinced themselves that China is about to have a liberal democratic revolution, anyday now, because people always chose FREEDOM! over material prosperity. That's the kind of delusion winning on the level that the west won from 89-2000 gets you.


https://www.unz.com/article/how-can-western-capitalism-beat-this/?highlight=china


"In June, 2017, an instructive meeting took place between California Governor Jerry Brown and Chinese President Xi Jinping. While talking about climate change, the topic of high speed trains (HST) came up. Governor Brown supposedly lamented that his state has not been able to build even one puny HST line, since his governor-father began pushing for it back in the 1950s.

▲▼Why? While China is zeroing in on 30,000km of HST track, more than the rest of the world combined, along with hundreds of architecturally inspiring train stations to serve them, California has 2,000 lawsuits fighting its proposal. Why? Greedy capitalists and their purchased government employees and representatives are fighting each other for the loot, like cannibals in a kill pit of corruption, while selfish citizens are putting their individual interests ahead of the greater good. The latter is called NIMBY, Not in My Backyard."


No matter how biased and hyperbolic that essay is, the basic reality its referring to is legit.

Let them have it. If Trump was our ambassador they'd genocide our species out of mercy.

BeardFisher-King

  • *
  • Kijneta
  • ***
  • Posts: 268
  • The Trackless Steppe
    • View Profile
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2017, 08:00:18 pm »

No matter how biased and hyperbolic that essay is, the basic reality its referring to is legit.


Glad you recognize the bias and hyperbole. The author credits Mao, btw, for laying the "bedrock" for this wondrous society.

It's all about breaking eggs and making omelettes.
"The heart of any other, because it has a will, would remain forever mysterious."

-from "Snow Falling On Cedars", by David Guterson

jamesA01

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2017, 04:26:00 am »
Morality has nothing to do with it, and America has its own history of genocide and mass slaughter.

BeardFisher-King

  • *
  • Kijneta
  • ***
  • Posts: 268
  • The Trackless Steppe
    • View Profile
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2017, 07:02:38 pm »
Morality has nothing to do with it, and America has its own history of genocide and mass slaughter.
If "morality has nothing to do with it", then why bring up America's moral failings?
"The heart of any other, because it has a will, would remain forever mysterious."

-from "Snow Falling On Cedars", by David Guterson

TaoHorror

  • *
  • Great Name
  • ****
  • Posts: 428
  • Blueberry Psūkhe Sorcerer
    • View Profile
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2017, 07:13:13 pm »
Morality has nothing to do with it, and America has its own history of genocide and mass slaughter.
If "morality has nothing to do with it", then why bring up America's moral failings?

You're being kind there, Beard - more like America's criminal history. And I love America, some great things about living here, but our violent/criminal history is awful
Remember to brush before bed

BeardFisher-King

  • *
  • Kijneta
  • ***
  • Posts: 268
  • The Trackless Steppe
    • View Profile
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2017, 07:23:08 pm »
Morality has nothing to do with it, and America has its own history of genocide and mass slaughter.
If "morality has nothing to do with it", then why bring up America's moral failings?

You're being kind there, Beard - more like America's criminal history. And I love America, some great things about living here, but our violent/criminal history is awful

As is every nation's. I don't think America's history is uniquely evil. It was settled by colonists, who conflicted with the natives, who undoubtedly conflicted with those on the scene before them.

Mao's revolution, on the other hand, was "more", as Kellhus might have said.

To repeat, Liu's theory of "dark-forest strategy" puts an extremely interesting spin on first-contact issues.
"The heart of any other, because it has a will, would remain forever mysterious."

-from "Snow Falling On Cedars", by David Guterson

Athorn "FB" Gallizur

  • *
  • Kcub Sicnarf
  • Momurai
  • *****
  • The Lordlady
  • Posts: 99
    • View Profile
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2017, 08:03:23 pm »
Oooh this is awesome. Three-Body Problem rivals Blindsight as one of my favorite SF novels ever and also one of the most enlightening/frightening explorations of how alien contact could go south in ways totally unexpected and unrelated to "aliens are bad and just wanna kill everybody". In fact Three-Body Problem maybe even more-so than Blindsight, as the issues potentially stemming from relativity are ones that are basically inevitable if mankind is ever to colonize interstellar space. Don't even need the aliens for shit to get real hairy right off the bat.

BeardFisher-King

  • *
  • Kijneta
  • ***
  • Posts: 268
  • The Trackless Steppe
    • View Profile
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2017, 12:14:16 am »
Oooh this is awesome. Three-Body Problem rivals Blindsight as one of my favorite SF novels ever and also one of the most enlightening/frightening explorations of how alien contact could go south in ways totally unexpected and unrelated to "aliens are bad and just wanna kill everybody". In fact Three-Body Problem maybe even more-so than Blindsight, as the issues potentially stemming from relativity are ones that are basically inevitable if mankind is ever to colonize interstellar space. Don't even need the aliens for shit to get real hairy right off the bat.

Hey, FB, how's it going? Have you read the entire Three Body trilogy?
"The heart of any other, because it has a will, would remain forever mysterious."

-from "Snow Falling On Cedars", by David Guterson

TLEILAXU

  • *
  • Kijneta
  • ***
  • Posts: 294
    • View Profile
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2017, 12:49:49 am »
Isn't the premise in that series something like "guys our own solar system sucks so we invade yours, gl hf phaggots lol we also hijacked your technological development" ? Is it worth reading?

BeardFisher-King

  • *
  • Kijneta
  • ***
  • Posts: 268
  • The Trackless Steppe
    • View Profile
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2017, 01:11:46 am »
Isn't the premise in that series something like "guys our own solar system sucks so we invade yours, gl hf phaggots lol we also hijacked your technological development" ? Is it worth reading?
It's worth reading, yes:

1) For the wild speculative physics.
2) For the "dark-forest strategy" of multiple interstellar civilizations.
3) There are also some great characters. 
"Da Shi", a Chinese detective, is awesome.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 12:14:48 pm by BeardFisher King »
"The heart of any other, because it has a will, would remain forever mysterious."

-from "Snow Falling On Cedars", by David Guterson

MSJ

  • *
  • The Afflicted Few
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Yatwer's Baby Daddy
  • Posts: 1706
  • "You killed the wolf"
    • View Profile
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2017, 01:14:51 am »
Quote from: Tleilaxu
Isn't the premise in that series something like "guys our own solar system sucks so we invade yours, gl hf phaggots lol we also hijacked your technological development" ? Is it worth reading?

No, its more like our planet is dying and dude, we want yours. The first book is good, but imho, has a lot of pacing issues. I haven't got to Dark Forest, but I will. I'm intrigued enough to finish the series. After Malazan, and reading it straight through, I have a hard time reading a series all at once. I tend to read a few series at a time.

[EDIT Madness: Quote tag.]
« Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 05:03:42 pm by Madness »
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,