Inrau and the Cants of Compulsion

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Wolfdrop

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« on: December 23, 2017, 12:31:27 pm »
So I’m listening to the audiobook version of TDTCB and it’s brought up something I remember wondering over on my first read.

When Inrau first comes to meet Akka at the tavern, is he under the influence of a Cant of Compulsion? The whole sequence he’s in a dreamlike state, and describes “Words that battered whatever will remained to him. Words that walked with his limbs.”

And when he arrives “light spilling from his working mouth. Flakes of sun in his eyes.”

When Akka stops everything seems to come back into focus. All the evidence points at a Cant.

Now here’s my confusion.

1) He later rules out Compelling Inrau as it would leave him with the Mark, and would out him to the Thousand Temples.

2) Wouldn’t Sarcellus and the Shrial Knights noticed him Canting?


MSJ

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« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2017, 01:15:26 pm »
The audio book must be different. I've read TDTCB 7 times and cannot recall any of that happening to Inrau in the meeting at the bar/pub.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Wolfdrop

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« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2017, 06:26:54 pm »
I checked my paper copies after reading, both Orbit and Penguin editions and it’s there.

It’s easy missed, I believe it’s the second time we ever see sorcery in the series after the Nonman showdown in the prologue. I totally glossed over it on my first read, before we know much about the metaphysics.

MSJ

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« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2017, 09:36:01 pm »
Oh maybe its because Akka is ready to use sorcery on the Shrial Knights, he thinks his cover is blown. He never used it on Inrau, and never would.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Wolfdrop

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« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2017, 12:30:08 pm »
It’s before that encounter.

I’ve seen it’s been discussed on the reddit reread.

I’m torn somewhere between only continued use of Compulsion leaves the Mark, or that Akka is lying to himself.

I’m 100% sure Inrau is Compelled to come to the initial meeting. Full section attached.

“In his dream, Inrau walked through canyons of burnt brick, through faces and figures illuminated by rags of torchlight. And he heard a voice from nowhere, crying through his bones, across every finger’s-breadth of his skin, speaking words like the shadows of fists striking just beyond the corner of his eyes. Words that battered whatever will remained to him. Words that walked with his limbs.

He glimpsed the sagging facade of a tavern, then a low, golden-dim enclosure of smoke, tables, and overhead beams. The entrance enveloped him. The rising ground tipped forward, directed him toward a malevolent blackness in the far corner of the room. It too enveloped him—another entrance. Everything rushed into the bearded man, his head slack against the chapped stucco, his face on a lazy, upward angle, but tight with some forbidden ecstasy—light spilling from his working mouth. Flakes of sun in his eyes.

Achamian . . .

Then the impossible mutter trailed into the rumble of patrons. The murky interior of the tavern became sturdy and mundane. The nightmarish angles squared. The play of light and shadow became crisp.

“What are you doing here?” Inrau sputtered, struggling to clear his thoughts.”

« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 12:35:56 pm by Wolfdrop »

MSJ

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« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2017, 12:45:04 pm »
No shit!! I never noticed it. Thanks for the quote!
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Dora Vee

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« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2017, 06:44:35 pm »
Cants of Compulsion on Inrau? :( I never noticed that. Maybe Akka should have used that on Proyas.
Faith is the truth of passion. Since no passion is more true than another, faith is the truth of nothing.   
                          -Ajencis, the fourth analytic of man

MSJ

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« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2017, 03:13:10 pm »
Quote from:  Dora Vee
]Cants of Compulsion on Inrau? :( I never noticed that. Maybe Akka should have used that on Proyas.

Yes. Its something I've never noticed. But, when I have time is like to read it in context.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Knee that Bends

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« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2017, 08:18:15 pm »
Thanks Wolfdrop! Great find! I never noticed that, very interesting. Probably like most people, I wouldn't have thought akka would do that, it changes my whole perception of that scene.
"And I renounce..." He trailed, warred with errant pas­sions. "I renounce my wife."
His eyes fell upon Esmenet, stricken upon the floor. My wife!
"Noooo," she wept and whispered. "Pleaaase, Akka..."
"As an adulteress," he continued, his voice cracking, "and a... a..."
His face a mask of nimil, he turned without leave, began walking back the way he came. The Men of the Tusk stared at him dumbstruck

Wolfdrop

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« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2017, 12:32:09 am »
Yeah, I totally glossed on first read. I knew something was up but wasn't familiar enough with the setting to put my finger on it.

Reading it with eyes tuned to the telltale signs of sorcery it seems really obvious.

But as with all things in this series it simply raises more questions. Why is he averse to Compelling spying but not the meeting. If using the Compulsion on someone gives them the Mark, shouldn't that have damned Inrau and outed him as a sorcerer during his showdown with the Consult? The justification for not using the Cants of Compulsion comes...right after he uses them.

It's tragic, but I loved that in his final moments, Inrau becomes a badass and unleashes some scraps of the Gnosis, though that ultimately cost him his soul.

I swear I forget about all these things during AMA's and squander my questions on why the umlauts aren't consistent and spelling mistakes.  :(

MSJ

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« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2017, 02:20:10 am »
Wolfdrop, I just read the scene and it has to be a compulsion. Or, its what it seems to be. But, it is the same meeting as the Shrial Knights. Maybe it wasn't a Compulsion, which we know is a way to gain info (which Akka said he was against vehemently, and I truly don't think he would use it.). I think it might have been a calling of some kind, you know, to get Inrau where he could talk to him in private and let him know why he was in Summa. To me, I don't think it was a Can't of Compulsion. But, I do believe it was a way the Akka uses to lure someone where he wants them. We know what the Compulsions do, look no further then Xinemus. I don't think for one second it was a Compulsion. But, I do believe sorcery was at work.

Here's what I think, I think it was a Can't of Calling. And what Inrau's inner dialogue is, is of Akka sending to him. And, this makes sense and also adds up. Moe sent dreams to Ishual and no Mark was left, per Kellhus (another argument, but I believe and can offer proof that Kellhus got those dreams, just read the Leweth sections.). Hence no mark. And, Akka planted the info in Inrau dreams to meet him at the bar. Another thing that makes me know its not a compulsion is that their in Summa. Home of the Thousand Temples, a spy sorcerers worse nightmare. No, it was a calling to get Inrau to where he needed him, without risking the Temple, Shrial Knights and the College of Luthemaye.

Still, great find.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Wolfdrop

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« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2017, 12:58:54 pm »
Hmm I definitely like idea of a Cant of Calling, but what confuses me if how immediate he goes from the dreamlike state to physically being there.

I had thought the purpose of the Cant was to force Inrau to meet him.

Doesn’t a Cant of Calling depend on the sender knowing the exact location of the sleeping receiver, hence how Moenghus could send the dreams.

Man, this is a mindfuck.

Wilshire

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« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2017, 03:55:48 pm »
Cant of Calling - exclusively used to speak with a sleeping person what you know the location of. I doubt Inrau was sleeping and that Akka knew where he was.

Very interesting section :) as do pretty much all of Inrau's sections.
Inrau's sequences have lots of oddities in them and even retcons/mistakes, I struggle to use any of them to draw meaningful conclusions. He does seem to be rather distracted, but he spends much of the time we have with him hearing voices and feeling compelled to do things.

Its also extremely odd that Akka is using sorcery at all. WTF is that about? Sitting in a crowded bar with shrial knights nearby probably bearing chorae, in a city that abhors magic and is on the brink of war.

If Inrau was being compelled or otherwise directed via sorcery to meet with Akka, maybe it was by some other third party? Who's at play here?
Consult: Soulbearing Skin spies, not to mention the proximity of Aurang. Could be they were going to use Inrau to gain information from Akka about the Mandate in some way. They were trying to turn him later before Inrau suicided.
Dunyain: Maithanet/Moenghus might have wanted them to meet. Psuke at play still - Maybe Maithanet himself was a Puskari, or less speculative and more likely he had one of the Water-Bearers on staff hidden somewhere. Plenty of blind beggars around Sumna I'm sure.
Mandate: Maybe one of them, another field operative or something, was helping move things along.

In the event that is wasn't Akka, its possible in Akka's distressed state he missed a faint mark on Inrau? I know that seems unlikely but we know he wasn't much of a spy lol. That, or the mark is erased post-use, as you guys mentioned above. That seem unlikely because battlegrounds and other objects are scared with sorcery after use, but there are several mechanics in TDTCB (more so than in other novels) that were removed/changed in later books, this might be some kind of error?

Akka using cants of compulsion on Inrau makes no sense story-wise, so I find that the least likely explanation.
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MSJ

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« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2017, 05:07:48 pm »
I agree with you here Wilshire. Its definitely not Compulsion. I can't reckon Akka using sorcery in a bar in Summa, with the way sorcery is seen in that city.

Why I say that Akka used a Cant of Calling is because it wouldn't be hard for a spy to find out where his former apprentice slept. And, Inrau's musings can be that of a dream he had while thinking about it on the way to the bar.


Anyway, its a great find, no doubt about it.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Wilshire

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« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2017, 05:38:51 pm »
Why I say that Akka used a Cant of Calling is because it wouldn't be hard for a spy to find out where his former apprentice slept. And, Inrau's musings can be that of a dream he had while thinking about it on the way to the bar.
Of, that's a fair point, and also obvious lol, I should have seen what you meant.
So you're saying Inrau's sequence is him simply reflecting on the dream he was sent, and his initial view of Akka casting in the bar was in the dream.
His "what are you doing here" comment was the first thing we hear/see him do in real-space (as opposed to dream-space)? Makes sense.
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