The Olympics 2018

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MSJ

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« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2018, 10:17:33 am »
Quote from:  Tleilaxu
So if your definition of sports only includes those sports which cause physical exhaustion, what about curling, darts or any other sports that emphasizes fine motor skills instead of physical strength/endurance? You either exclude those too, or accept that e-sports is a sport if you ask me. Not that I even care that much but your stubborn opposition is making me more reactionary. Also, if you think playing a video game competitively is just about fiddling with your thumbs, you should try actually playing a video game competitively. It's one thing to smoke weed and play tekken 3 on a playstation 2, it's another thing to play SC2 with 300 APM.

I believe video games take skill. I would never say they don’t. Curling is a physical activity, so I don’t get the comparison. Basically, anything that involves getting off your ass and out the house and competing is a sport. You won’t sway me that someone who plays video games for a living is an athlete. I’m not saying it’s easy, or doesn’t require time and practice to be good at. It’s just not a sport. And, if we start treating it as one we’ll have an even worse obesity epidemic.

“Dad, guess what? I got to play a lot today, ran touchdowns, killed Nazi’s, aliens and orcs. Oh, and also did it all on my Xbox with a bag of Cheetos!”

Yea, setting a great example for our young ones. It’s why I won’t buy any of those for my kids. Not because I can’t afford it. Because, I can’t afford to watch my kid become inactive and live in their rooms.

ETA: I get that it’s a huge business and very successful and a lot of people are attracted to it. It’s just not a sport. Doesn’t deserve a place in the Olympics. I think that’s sending the wrong message to our youth about what constitutes activity. And yes, it’s personal, I have 3 children I hope so not become part of the obesity problem we have in our neck of the woods. Look up the statistics on WV and you’ll see my concern.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 10:39:07 am by MSJ »
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

TLEILAXU

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« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2018, 11:51:27 am »
Quote from:  Tleilaxu
So if your definition of sports only includes those sports which cause physical exhaustion, what about curling, darts or any other sports that emphasizes fine motor skills instead of physical strength/endurance? You either exclude those too, or accept that e-sports is a sport if you ask me. Not that I even care that much but your stubborn opposition is making me more reactionary. Also, if you think playing a video game competitively is just about fiddling with your thumbs, you should try actually playing a video game competitively. It's one thing to smoke weed and play tekken 3 on a playstation 2, it's another thing to play SC2 with 300 APM.

I believe video games take skill. I would never say they don’t. Curling is a physical activity, so I don’t get the comparison. Basically, anything that involves getting off your ass and out the house and competing is a sport. You won’t sway me that someone who plays video games for a living is an athlete. I’m not saying it’s easy, or doesn’t require time and practice to be good at. It’s just not a sport. And, if we start treating it as one we’ll have an even worse obesity epidemic.

“Dad, guess what? I got to play a lot today, ran touchdowns, killed Nazi’s, aliens and orcs. Oh, and also did it all on my Xbox with a bag of Cheetos!”

Yea, setting a great example for our young ones. It’s why I won’t buy any of those for my kids. Not because I can’t afford it. Because, I can’t afford to watch my kid become inactive and live in their rooms.

ETA: I get that it’s a huge business and very successful and a lot of people are attracted to it. It’s just not a sport. Doesn’t deserve a place in the Olympics. I think that’s sending the wrong message to our youth about what constitutes activity. And yes, it’s personal, I have 3 children I hope so not become part of the obesity problem we have in our neck of the woods. Look up the statistics on WV and you’ll see my concern.
Curling and dart require fine motor skills instead of physical endurance/strength, just like e-sports. Obesity has little to do with competitive gaming. Sure, if you play video-games because you're addicted or trying to escape reality, health can be a problem, but the vast majority of competitive players are fit and healthy, even though they practice many hours a day.

Wilshire

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« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2018, 02:13:35 pm »
Anything in moderation. Running too much will kill you as assuredly as sitting too much. So will drinking too much water. Its just easier to do one of those things than the others.

Talking about "I want my kids to be fit" and "what is a sport" aren't even the same conversation, but trying to shoehorn it in is leading to confusion and apparently anger.

I've yet to see a half thought through argument about what makes a sport, nor obviously any consensus on what is or isn't, or what should or shouldn't. So what if we haven't yet, but don't fall back on anger and irrelevant political rhetoric to make your arguments for you.

Why Curling and not video games? Have you seen the curling athletes? Or professional Dart players? Bowling? Pool? What about professional shot-put throwers?
Not all sports are good for you, or provide you with adequate exercise, so why get so furious at considering another activity that requires far more skill?

Just be consistent. If your opinion is that only exercise makes a sport, there's nothing wrong with that. But don't be afraid to call out 'real sports' as 'not sports' - I imagine it'll create a whole lot less cognitive dissonance.

For me, if it doesn't involve a physical activity, a team, an object to pass around, and a way to score points, its not a sport. Way to many things are called sports for no reason - most 'sports' are largely just exercise, which imo isn't a sport at all, same with largely cerebral exercises like chess or video games...But heaven forbid anyone tells someone that their thing isn't a 'sport'! Them is fightin' words!!!

Since it is so, so difficult to take away the apparently vaunted title of 'sport' from whatever activity, its far more internally consistent to just say 'anything that people compete at' is a sport. Be it some of the most athletic mult-event sports like decathalons or gymnastics all-around, extreme exercise like super marathons, traditional team ball sports, or something less physically exhausting but more heavily centered on mental acuity like shooting competitions (bows, guns, darts) and esports.

Specifically regarding esports, 'sports' just like anything else might as easily be described using purely economic statements. Any successful enterprise generates revenue and customers, sports do with with viewers, ticket sales, and merchandising. The reality is that esports are massively popular, and getting more so by the day. We're not talking about the local interest that something like "American Football" generates, we're talking international viewership numbers in the hundreds of millions. At some point, I would think the simple greed of entities like the Olympics will justify including the likes of video games for their profit making potential, and to stay culturally relevant. Indeed, some colleges have been recruiting and giving scholarships to "eAthletes" for their "eSports" playing for this very reason (money, greed, cultural relevance).

Just like I'd not let my own children play a sport as ridiculously dangerous as football (nothing like encouraging your child to bludgeon their brains into mush before they get to college!), I'd probably not consider dozens of videogame hours/day as an allowable daily pastime. But who cares, that doesn't make either 'not a sport', its irrelevant to the conversation.
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MSJ

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« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2018, 09:10:36 pm »
I dont know why you insist this is personal in some way Wilshire. I did give the Oxford definition of a sport. Just because you attach sport to the end of something doesnt make it a sport. And, i think the both of you are being very obtuse in acknowledging what a sport is. You making the argument complicated for some reason that escapes me....

Ive never seen kids dropping dead from going around and playing outside various sports. You seriously exxagerate the damage that can be done by PeeWee football. I coached it for 6 years, have you ever watched it? Never seen a concussion in the 6 years i coached, most kids are scared to death to tackle. But, thats a different argument.

All im saying i can attach sport to the end of any activity for commercial purposes, that doessnt make it a sport. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it.

My kids will have a gaming system one day, but if it ever becomes a problem it will go in the trash. Getting outside and being active is very important for a child, especially team sports. It teaches them alot of lessons about life. Along with the benefit of being active.

For some reason, you guys want to make an argument out of something you should clearly be able discern as to what is a sport. Its not complicated and you guys are not ignorant people. I am baffled to be honest.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

MSJ

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« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2018, 09:34:44 pm »
Quote
Why Curling and not video games?

Because, you know, you have to get off you ass to do it.....

Its a physical activity, that has a scoring system, and takes practice to be good at. You know why, i shouldnt have to explain.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Wilshire

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« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2018, 12:56:14 pm »
MSJ, you seem to really like sports, hold them in high esteem, and I'm really on the other side of that spectrum.

I don't like sports. I think people (parents especially) get too involved, I think it stunts kid's emotional and mental development, leads to lifelong physical damage and medical problem, and I'm 100% sure that the better a child is at a sport the easier it is for them to skate through life - able to underachieve in every aspect of life/school for their physical prowess to the point of colleges graduating illiterate students.

Sports are a modern day gladiatorial games, and a net loss to society at large as they ransom our money, our time, our resources, and our children, to satisfy our base desire to watch other's struggle, hurt themselves, and/or otherwise throw away their lives for our entertainment. Any virtues a sport might have are far overshadowed by the abuses they engender. The cost far to great for any middling, esoteric returns that might be gained. Calling something a sport, in my mind, if far more an insult than a compliment.

This all coming from someone who was paid to do sports. I'd guess I'm probably a more accomplished athlete than anyone here - which is honestly a source of personal embarrassment. I've seen the inner workings of sports organizations from the inside. I've spent decades watching how they manipulate and ruin lives on a scale most people can't even imagine, sitting there in the bleachers or on their coaches - blissfully unaware.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 12:58:40 pm by Wilshire »
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MSJ

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« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2018, 01:24:41 pm »
Well, I was certainly never paid to play them. But, yes, I hold them in high esteem. I don't force my children to play anything....at all. I won't coach my kid. I seen the aspects you mention by just coaching. I take a laid back approach, and just try to make it fun. But, I was a fairly decent athlete (had walk-on offers in basketball and football), and my son who is old enough is head and shoulders above the kids his age. He likes it, I'm sure, because I do. Trust me, I know the pitfalls, and as a parent try and avoid them at all cost.

Exammple: one of the first games my boy ever played flag football he ran the wrong way. Coaches yelled at him and I could tell he was hurt afterwards. I grew up with a demanding father when it came to sports. So, I never mentioned it, and acted the same way he did when he ran 3 TD's. There can be plenty of negative for sure. I do think the positive outweighs the negative, if approached the right way. Never seen to the extent you have, but I have heard plenty of stories of life after pro sports. Not too pretty for most of them.

ETA: I don't agree that be g an athlete necessarily means you get to skate by sholasticly. I mean, I have zero, nil, no expectations of any of my children going pro. Hopefully, they might be good enough to pay for their schooling. Schooling is top priority in my household, bar none. But, yes, they do graduate illiterate student-athletes all the time. That's not even in question. Wilshire, but I'm worried about is the 3 kids that are mine. The two in school are above average students, both having already earned Student of the Month. I understand your disdain, as that was your personal experience. Shame. Because, team sports teach a ton of life lessons and forge friendships that last a life time. Your taking your experience and conveying to everyone's and that's not fair, at all. Plenty of athletes turn out to be great people and do great things aside from athletics. It gives kids who otherwise couldn't afford school a chance to be the 1st person in their family to earn a degree. I could go on and on, Wilshire. I'm sorry for your negative experience. Mine was not. Taught me a lot about what I would face in the real world. Teamwork, being able to take orders and so on. Not one negative came out of it for me. Other than a father who expected me to score 20 points and 10 assists or throw for 200 yards and a few touchdowns running or passing. Sometimes he wouldn't speak to me after games, because of a lackluster performance. That hurt. I wouldn't ever do that to my kids. I expect them to have fun and enjoy the experience, while hopefully doing well along the way. Its all I hope for.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 11:27:28 pm by MSJ »
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

MSJ

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« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2018, 05:41:26 pm »
For those you out there that are gamers, I want you to know that I mean no disrespect, by not thinking of it as a sport. In sure it takes and unbelievable amount of time, skill and hard work to compete at that level. Sorry, if you thought I was being disrespectful. ;)
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Dora Vee

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« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2018, 10:02:39 pm »
Can we talk about some actual Olympics now? Men's figure skating is tonight and early Saturday, I will be getting up to watch short track speed skating live.
Faith is the truth of passion. Since no passion is more true than another, faith is the truth of nothing.   
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MSJ

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« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2018, 11:44:51 pm »
Quote from:  Dora Vee
Can we talk about some actual Olympics now? Men's figure skating is tonight and early Saturday, I will be getting up to watch short track speed skating live.

Yes. Sorry, Dora Vee. Gotta little sidetracked there. Back to the Olympics! USA isn't fairing so well, as I the moment. Hope they can turn it around. We usually do decent, I think we've won overall medals a few times I remember. But, Winter Olympics is not our strong suit. Summer....we're hard to beat.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Dora Vee

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« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2018, 11:48:52 pm »
It's usually Norway and Germany that dominate the Winter Olympics. Then, there's the Dutch who dominate Speed Skating.
Faith is the truth of passion. Since no passion is more true than another, faith is the truth of nothing.   
                          -Ajencis, the fourth analytic of man

MSJ

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« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2018, 11:59:24 pm »
Yep, and Russia. But, they were banned from these Olympics, correct?
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Dora Vee

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« Reply #42 on: February 17, 2018, 03:00:22 am »
Yes. The atheletes found innocent were able to compete as OAR.

And now, figure skating. Chan! YAY! Went from a painful short program to a godlike long one! One of the best scores ever! Hooray! Loved Misha Ge too.
Faith is the truth of passion. Since no passion is more true than another, faith is the truth of nothing.   
                          -Ajencis, the fourth analytic of man

MSJ

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« Reply #43 on: February 19, 2018, 10:18:14 am »
http://www.espn.com/olympics/winter18/story/_/id/22497581/russian-bronze-medalist-curler-alexander-krushelnitsky-charged-doping

Now, last thing ill say on the issue, because I do fear the wrath of Dora Vee. Any doping allegations at the eSports events? :)
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Wilshire

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« Reply #44 on: February 19, 2018, 02:12:37 pm »
Should probably split the topic and make a new one for 'what is a sport', or some such.

Finally got too see Nathan Chen on his final freeskate(?) performance. Record breaking score, record breaking performance (landing 6 quadruple jumpy-thingies when the previous record was 4). Amazing stuff. Such a shame he didn't medal.
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