[TUC Spoilers] But seriously...what was the plan?

  • 20 Replies
  • 4053 Views

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

natanaj

  • *
  • Emwama
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2018, 04:39:54 am »

He doesn't and this, for me, feeds into the "it doesn't matter which head was on Kellhus' shoulders when in the Golden Room." As per the Decapitants entry in the Glossary, Ajokli tried to manipulate a take-over of Kellhus' agency at Mengedda and save himself a trip to Golgotterath but that didn't work. Once in the Golden Room - the deepest Topoi in Earwa - he was able to go God-Mode and contradict basically all Earwan physics (mundane/sorcery) as we'd previously understood them.


How do you know Ajokli tried to take over Kellhus at Mengedda? From what I recall, the glossary speaks about someone seeing Kellhus switch heads.

Wilshire

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Enshoiya
  • Posts: 5593
  • Do you remember the words?!
    • View Profile
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2018, 03:20:27 pm »
How do you know Ajokli tried to take over Kellhus at Mengedda? From what I recall, the glossary speaks about someone seeing Kellhus switch heads.

As per the Decapitants entry in the Glossary, Ajokli tried to manipulate a take-over of Kellhus' agency at Mengedda
So, an interpretation of the glossary. I expect some quoting is in order.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

Jabberwock03

  • *
  • Suthenti
  • *
  • Posts: 50
    • View Profile
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2018, 12:40:37 pm »
The post is old, but as it is up again, here is my views (not on all points tho):

Quote
2) What do you think the overall plan would have been had Skuthala not been guarding the Intrinsic Gate? Serwa and Kayutas meet up with Kellus in the golden room to face the consult? If Kellus has the ability to become Ajokli he didn't really need them.
But Kellhus is just really smart, not all seeing (and we all know how it ended for him). So, althought not needed, why not have Serwa and Kayutas as backup plan?
And I think the first plan was really to wait for them but Ajokli kinda was impatient and manipulated Kellhus to go alone.
I believe Kellhus gave in part of his mind to Ajokli in exchange for the power to destroy the consult and stop the resurgence of the No-God.

Quote
4) Does Kellus change plans while he's in the golden room. Originally the plan was to get to the ark and destroy the consult, ending the threat of the second apocalypse. But once he becomes Ajokli he tells the Mutilated he will use them as a threat of terror for the world. So what does that mean? It certainly sounds like he's decided to keep them around.
I love the fact that we don't know Kellhus plan explicitly and we can speculate as we want. Great discutions on this forum.
So, for me, Kellhus had plan to become Ajokli all along. He wanted to switch place with Ajokli in a win-win situation: Ajokli want to leave the outside and Harvest the world, while Kellhus access the outside in place of Ajokli and become a god.
And from there he can fight the other gods and conquere the outside (with the help of the power harvested by Ajokli? tricking the trickster?) and go closer to the absolute as he is free of the physical world.
If I remember correctly, Bakker said somewhere that Dunyains collect power for the sake of collecting more power. God Kellhus even might not care at all if Ajokli turn the planet into a big torture fest as long as he's the boss in the outside.

Quote
What does everyone think?
tl;dr
Kellhus made a deal with Ajokli to switch places in order to defeat the consult.
Ajokli doesn't fully follow Kellhus plan and go full apocalypse a bit too soon.
Ajokli is now a god on earth. Kellhus is now a mortal ascended god doing Kellhus stuff in the outside.
==> Kel come and fuck everythings up

Also, not related, but as I said in another thread, I still think Ajokli is just really Cna´ur ascended to godhood. I love this theory.

FoolishOwl

  • *
  • Emwama
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2019, 09:27:41 pm »
I was wondering, all through the second series, what the Great Ordeal was planning to actually do once they reached Golgotterath -- just fight off the defenders, then dismantle the Ark with their bare hands? As it played out, that wasn't even possible; they couldn't even open a second breach to the interior. It looked very much as if the entire point of the Great Ordeal, and for that matter the Thousandfold Thought, was simply to keep most of the Ark's defenders busy while Kellhus confronted the leaders of the Consult. Who, as it turned out, wanted him there anyway.

The metaphysical importance of that confrontation aside, was the plan really as simple as that?

themerchant

  • *
  • The Afflicted Few
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Captain Slogger
  • Posts: 912
    • View Profile
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2019, 10:48:33 pm »
The Plan seemed to be. Besiege the Arc, take the intrinsic gate and head up to the golden room (for Serwe and the ordeal)

Kellhus plan was to use Ajokli's powers (we see him performing markless sorcery during the last whelming) to some end. We don't find out what the end was because inside the Golden Room Ajokli is able to possess Kellhus, his plan seemed to be use Kellhus to get into the world of living to feed and perhaps escape the other gods.

Consult plan was to grab kellhus and chuck him in the sarcophagus.

Kellhus plan once he dominated the arc is the big mystery still.

Wilshire

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Enshoiya
  • Posts: 5593
  • Do you remember the words?!
    • View Profile
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2019, 02:03:54 pm »
I was wondering, all through the second series, what the Great Ordeal was planning to actually do once they reached Golgotterath -- just fight off the defenders, then dismantle the Ark with their bare hands? As it played out, that wasn't even possible; they couldn't even open a second breach to the interior. It looked very much as if the entire point of the Great Ordeal, and for that matter the Thousandfold Thought, was simply to keep most of the Ark's defenders busy while Kellhus confronted the leaders of the Consult. Who, as it turned out, wanted him there anyway.

The metaphysical importance of that confrontation aside, was the plan really as simple as that?

As themerchant said, its more so a matter of plans going totally wrong that makes the Ordeal end up looking silly.

Kellhus wasn't planning on storming the Golden Room by himself. I think probably a better option would have been Kellhus coming in to open the second gate and help maybe fight off the Wracu - or do something to get his entire army into the Ark.

But really, its made clear the Ordeal was not meant to get back home. They were all going to die, with maybe an exception of his favorites. Probably the plan was something closer to having the Ordeal distracting the defenders, maybe to lighten the load of the Golden Room confrontation (like maybe a horde of chorae bearing skin spies).

At best, he'd arrive with some cadre in-tact in the Golden Room, complete with his children, some extra foot soldiers for fodder, probably Sacaree and some Witches. Meta-Magic, God-Magic, or whatever you want to call Kellhus' mark-less sorcery (levitation earlier, the Stomp, Chorae Gravity thing in the golden room) was probably still Plan A but with all the backup to increase his chances.

Unfortunately for them both, Ajokli got impatient and blew it by overestimating himself.
One of the other conditions of possibility.