eSports vs Sports

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Wilshire

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« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2018, 01:51:48 pm »
I think that since no two people agree on what a sport is, the term is already useless.

So everyone just defines it the way they want to include the things they like, and exclude the things they don't. Nothing wrong with that I guess, but no one is talking about the same thing.

Internal consistence is key, imo. If you can't make a definition that satisfies your own ideas of what is and isn't a sport, I'm not sure anyone can help lol.

So since I find the term itself useless, defining it broadly gets it out of the way. Basically saying that everything is a sport, so we can stop with the false pretense that both parties knows what the other is referring too and actually just talk about the subject on hand. Very rarely is the definition of sport in question, almost always its people trying to talk about something else entirely. This just cuts to the quick.
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« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2018, 02:54:24 pm »
I think that since no two people agree on what a sport is, the term is already useless.

So everyone just defines it the way they want to include the things they like, and exclude the things they don't. Nothing wrong with that I guess, but no one is talking about the same thing.

But I like video games and I like athletic sports.  Seeing them as different things isn't a value statement from me, rather one of distinction.  Other's results may vary though.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

Wilshire

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« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2018, 03:05:01 pm »
They are of course distinct, and physical activity is a pretty fair point of distinction.

I'm not applying a value to either title. But this conversation really isn't for us, its for those who find great value in the exclusivity of their claim.

At the end of the day, were talking about a definition to a word and it has no baring on real life. People get paid handsomely to play pretend. People dedicate their lives and livelihoods on their ability to excel at totally random skills - not just in competitive events but any career.
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MSJ

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« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2018, 03:32:12 pm »
Quote from:  Wilshire
As someone who has done both extensively (4-year collegiate varsity athlete, Division 1, scholarship, championship ring), I feel I have a unique perspective worth considering. Obviously, not everyone here feels that way. However, those who are polarized to one side because they have little to no experience with the other, should probably talk less and listen more. Otherwise, we might as well have an angry atheist and a righteous religious leader try to tell each-other that god does/doesn't exist, for all the good it will do.


I'm willing to listen and have been. And, I played video games into my mid-twenties. Then, had kids and didn't have time for that or rec sports I was playing. I see both sides. But, your reasoning for calling it a sport is just wrong. Just because you want it to be something, doesn't make it so. It might be a competition, yes. One that takes very skilled gamers to compete in, bit it is not a sport.

You're wrong when you say that I think it has no value, because it does. Develops hand-eye coordination and I'm sure memory skills.

I agree with H. I like both of them, as long as either one turns your life upside down. You don't think when I get my kids a PS5 or whatever that I won't be playi g on that bitch a ten at night? I will. I know I will.
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Wilshire

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« Reply #34 on: March 01, 2018, 03:56:23 pm »
I said they are both equally valueless when done improperly.

They both can and do teach hand-eye-coordination, teamwork, adaptability, problem solving, people management, dealing with loss, dedication, hard work, work ethic, and a whole host of other things. The manifestation is different, the skills are the same.

In the 21st century, physical prowess is not high on my list of importance, and very low on my list for predictors of future success in today's world (not that I have a list).

Granted, having a good coach is great. Good adult role-models are vital for development, and you're not likely to find that playing video games. On the flip side, there's a lot of bad coaches out there, and can be more damaging than otherwise. A great coach can have a lifelong positive impact on a kids life, I know it has for me, but the reverse is true as well - I've known of male coaches getting into ... lets say trouble ... with their female athletes.

Its all a toss up. Sports are not some gold standard and can cause as much, or more, harm than a video game.
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MSJ

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« Reply #35 on: March 01, 2018, 04:23:49 pm »
I agree Wilshire, wholeheartedly with that post. Tthats what inwas getting at. Look, this has run its course and I have no need to battle over it. Positives and negatives to both. The fact remains as parents we have to see whether video games and sports are affecting our children negatively or positively. That's the crutch.

ETA: e Sports ARE STILL NOT FUCKING SPORTS!!!!!! AND I WILL NEVER WAIVER!  ;)
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Redeagl

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« Reply #36 on: March 01, 2018, 05:11:08 pm »
I agree Wilshire, wholeheartedly with that post. Tthats what inwas getting at. Look, this has run its course and I have no need to battle over it. Positives and negatives to both. The fact remains as parents we have to see whether video games and sports are affecting our children negatively or positively. That's the crutch.

ETA: e Sports ARE STILL NOT FUCKING SPORTS!!!!!! AND I WILL NEVER WAIVER!  ;)
Agreed. Esports are much smarter than sports, it's a shame mentioning the two in the same line :P
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Redeagl

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« Reply #37 on: March 01, 2018, 05:13:54 pm »
Quote from:  Wilshire
As someone who has done both extensively (4-year collegiate varsity athlete, Division 1, scholarship, championship ring), I feel I have a unique perspective worth considering. Obviously, not everyone here feels that way. However, those who are polarized to one side because they have little to no experience with the other, should probably talk less and listen more. Otherwise, we might as well have an angry atheist and a righteous religious leader try to tell each-other that god does/doesn't exist, for all the good it will do.


I'm willing to listen and have been. And, I played video games into my mid-twenties. Then, had kids and didn't have time for that or rec sports I was playing. I see both sides. But, your reasoning for calling it a sport is just wrong. Just because you want it to be something, doesn't make it so. It might be a competition, yes. One that takes very skilled gamers to compete in, bit it is not a sport.

You're wrong when you say that I think it has no value, because it does. Develops hand-eye coordination and I'm sure memory skills.

I agree with H. I like both of them, as long as either one turns your life upside down. You don't think when I get my kids a PS5 or whatever that I won't be playi g on that bitch a ten at night? I will. I know I will.
Ok serious reply this time. Playing a single player game on a PlayStation or Madden with friends doesn't really count as an "esport".
“The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before?”

- Chronicler of the Chroniclers

TLEILAXU

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« Reply #38 on: March 01, 2018, 05:49:52 pm »
I agree Wilshire, wholeheartedly with that post. Tthats what inwas getting at. Look, this has run its course and I have no need to battle over it. Positives and negatives to both. The fact remains as parents we have to see whether video games and sports are affecting our children negatively or positively. That's the crutch.

ETA: e Sports ARE STILL NOT FUCKING SPORTS!!!!!! AND I WILL NEVER WAIVER!  ;)
It's funny how you keep ignoring our comparisons with curling, dart etc.
I think you just need to face the fact that e-sports ARE sports. This is 100% objective.

H

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« Reply #39 on: March 01, 2018, 06:46:24 pm »
This is 100% objective.

The true mark of Objectivity: when it needs to be labeled such.  :)
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

Wilshire

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« Reply #40 on: March 01, 2018, 07:11:37 pm »
This is 100% objective.

The true mark of Objectivity: when it needs to be labeled such.  :)
Its troublesome that self-evident is subjective, but is the marker for objectivity. Paradoxes, anyone who drops out of the conversation at this point is confirmed skin spy.
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MSJ

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« Reply #41 on: March 01, 2018, 07:33:11 pm »
Tleilaxu, lol, you only follow the part of the conversation you want to. There was a Russian Curler that just got caught doping. Any gamers out there using PED's? Nah, didn't think so.  Darts is a questionable thing. But, by the definition of sports, eSports is I no way co.parable to that definition. Curling is. I've went over this already. Look, if it makes you think your an athlete to play BattleStar Galtica 3000, then good for you. But, you and very other gamer in the world is not an Athlete. You know it, i know it. You just can't admit that, because its one of your hobbies.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

TLEILAXU

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« Reply #42 on: March 01, 2018, 07:57:24 pm »
Tleilaxu, lol, you only follow the part of the conversation you want to. There was a Russian Curler that just got caught doping. Any gamers out there using PED's? Nah, didn't think so.  Darts is a questionable thing. But, by the definition of sports, eSports is I no way co.parable to that definition. Curling is. I've went over this already. Look, if it makes you think your an athlete to play BattleStar Galtica 3000, then good for you. But, you and very other gamer in the world is not an Athlete. You know it, i know it. You just can't admit that, because its one of your hobbies.
He got caught doping and the rest of the doping community was dumbfounded because, as they admitted, curling is not a physically taxing sport, it relies on fine motor skills, just like e-sports, which are indeed sports.

themerchant

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« Reply #43 on: March 01, 2018, 08:01:41 pm »
Plenty of people have answered the question: why is an esport a sport.

It is terribly simple: a sport is an imaginary competition people play. Video games are as real as any other sport.

Exercise is not a sport, therefore, the lack of exercise does not eliminate an activity from being a sport.

Nothing else to be said on topic. Off topic is what the rest of the thread has been: talking about child rearing, psyco-social development of children, etc. etc. Unfortunately, someone who hates something (ie video games) and loves something else (ie sports) can never see the benefit of the former and detriment of the latter.

As someone who has done both extensively (4-year collegiate varsity athlete, Division 1, scholarship, championship ring), I feel I have a unique perspective worth considering. Obviously, not everyone here feels that way. However, those who are polarized to one side because they have little to no experience with the other, should probably talk less and listen more. Otherwise, we might as well have an angry atheist and a righteous religious leader try to tell each-other that god does/doesn't exist, for all the good it will do.

Valid points. However I did warn that no good could come of this "debate". For some reason folk just seem to draw red lines when discussing it.

Wilshire

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« Reply #44 on: March 01, 2018, 08:21:37 pm »
All in good fun. :)
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