Gun Violence Restraining Orders: An idea whose time has come?

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BeardFisher-King

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« on: February 22, 2018, 04:42:56 pm »
For anyone interested in new ways to address gun violence and mass shootings, here's a link:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/02/gun-control-republicans-consider-grvo/
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themerchant

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« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2018, 05:42:36 pm »
Have a look at the Cullen's report(2nd one Dunblane, he did 3 in his career). That was what was produced after Scotland's first school shooting, been 20 years and thankfully the only one we've had.

The government looked at the report implemented it and the UK have had none since then (1996)

America has had 8 in the first 7 weeks of 2018.

Madness

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« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2018, 03:17:59 pm »
18 even?

I suppose those definitely all don't qualify as "mass" shootings.

EDIT: Gun Violence Archive: Mass Shooting

With fancy numbers.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 03:20:50 pm by Madness »
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BeardFisher-King

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« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2018, 03:19:24 pm »
Thanks, merch, for the referral. I've downloaded the document (the government response), but have yet to read it.

8 mass shootings at schools in America so far in 2018? Sorry, that can't be correct, can it?

Also, here's a link (also from David French of NRO) about the dangers of the current climate of opinion:
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/02/the-gun-control-debate-could-break-america/?
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« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2018, 03:21:15 pm »
Somehow my post was to go after yours, BFK. I'm not sure how that happened.
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BeardFisher-King

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« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2018, 04:40:55 pm »
Somehow my post was to go after yours, BFK. I'm not sure how that happened.
That's on me. I posted when I meant to preview, and then I deleted the post instead of editing it. Two errors on the play.
"The heart of any other, because it has a will, would remain forever mysterious."

-from "Snow Falling On Cedars", by David Guterson

MSJ

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« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2018, 04:29:34 pm »
My friend who is an upstanding, car I g and most likeable person you'll ever meet, wrote a post on Facebook regarding school shooting in America and the why of it. I asked to use it, here its.

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This is not a copy and paste.  So, if you have a couple mins to waste reading something on Facebook, I would ask you to consider the following thoughts.  When these school shootings take place and we are faced with yet another tragedy, the story lines that unfold are so pathetically predictable.  All of our hearts break when these things occur and we should demand answers and look for realistic solutuons.  Unfortunately, all we get is the same old platform of tighter gun control and why people have no business owning an AR 15 platform rifle.  Let me first say that I am no genius, but I know a lot of people that are far more intelligent than me saying alot of stupid things.  I believe that these are just platforms and soapboxes that politicians and celebrities  jump on to get an edge, on both sides of the aisle.   Why isn't the focus more on how the FBI had leads but apparently didn't follow them up, or tighter security in schools, or adapting protocols and training to better prepare for these tragedies?  Myself, or any other reasonable gun owner I know would have no problem discussing laws or measures that are sensible and would realistically make a difference.  I don't hear that.  I just hear people saying there is no business for anyone having an AR platform rifle.  Here is a good reason, Freedom.  I bought an AR 15 several years ago for my 10yr old daughter, okay, and maybe a little for me!  Main reasons; light caliber and little recoil, adjustable stock that was able to fit her perfectly, and it can be used for small & big game alike. Not to mention, just to shoot for the fun of it.  It drives me insane to see the same intelligent people, and some celebrities who qualify, demanding changes in something they know little about or would not affect their lifestyle at all.  These same celebrities get rich off of endorsing violent video games, movies, and music that so heavily influence our culture.  Let's face it, when you kill someone on a video game nowdays, they look real and so does their brain matter when it sprays from their heads. Not the case on the Atari 2600.  Just a stick man and square bullet.  Can we not make the real connection to a society that continues to decline in our moral standards and what we allow our kids to view?  It's called desensitization.  No question, guns that we glorify everyday and profit from (and I'm not talking about the NRA) make it quick and convenient to inflict mass casualties. However, do we really think that laws to sanction guns would stop it?  Fertilizer, nuts and bolts, pipes, pressure cookers, and cars have all been used in our recent past to carry out terrible acts of violence. Crap, we are now legalizing drugs.  We are the problem people, all of us!  The expression, "Where there's a will, there's a way" definitely applies. If someone  is demented, they will find a way.  Before we say, "Well, noone should have access to a high capacity rifle", I would point out that shooting is a legitimate past time.  Another note, it's our right to have them.  Until the day comes that everyone starts being willing to apply the same logic and removal of freedoms to everyone, I'm not interested in listening.  Much like I'm not interested in hearing a politician in Washington tell me what is in the best interest of common folk when those rules don't apply to them.  How much does alcohol play in crimes against children, women, and society in general?  Would it be the same logic to say people don't need alcohol in large quantities, or do they need fancy sports cars that go 180 mph?  Answer, we don't need them but they are privileges we enjoy.  Remove cars that travel over 30mph and alcohol and I have just instantly reduced DUI fatalities and a massive amount of domestic violence against women and children.  I know some will say it isn't the same logic, but it is.  I don't drink, but respect the Freedom others have to consume alcohol, in large quantities if they wish, so long as they obey the law under the influence.  Before we allow hypocritical Hollywood and many politicians to get us distracted from the root of the problem, remember that Freedom comes with a cost! This isn't North Korea and I am grateful it is not. Don't be a hypocrite!.

I did research on my on, via Wiki (I know, I know, I do Trust them in this instance. Here's the link. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States

It seems that the phenomenon of mass school shootings did not start until in a little town in Colorado when two teenagers decide to take the life of 15 and wound 27. It has since sprung a life of its own. Inwiah people not to ignore what my friend says. He points out that a AR-15 is nothing more than a hunting rifle with tactical gear, something indie not know and bought into the KoolAid of the left. Its a not a gun problem people. Its a society problem. He made me see a lot in a whole new light, mind you he works with kids that are at highest risk of committing some of these types of shootings. Taking guns away will not solve the problem, I never thought it would. But, parenting, adding laws to make getting a gun into a loonies hand harder, I'm all for. And, bet your bottom dollar the 2nd amendment will never be rescinded, and if the govt was stupid enough to try that....there would be a civil war that could last decades.
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TaoHorror

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« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2018, 06:09:22 pm »
The issue is massively complicated with politics with people heated on both sides being leveraged for political purposes. That said, no, it won't tear our country apart ( I take it the author of that piece was having trouble getting work/published to conclude something so extreme ).

We can fight about it or we can learn and listen to each other. For me, I find it really sucks these who Pres Trump correctly labels "losers" is driving change to our society and way of life. If we make massive changes to our laws like ill-legalizing AR15, those losers win. That's what they want - attention and create disaster beyond the murders. So now I have to relinquish my life style due to some fuckheads crimes - great. I'm open to stricter gun laws ( as long as it's to help society and not as leverage for a political party ) and for hardening our schools ( as long as it's to help society and not as leverage for a political party ). If we can ditch the politics, we can calm down and talk sensibility to each other and find ways to improve our lives without surrendering our culture/life-style/freedoms. The take on limiting alcohol and driving speeds is great, that is spot on what I'm talking about - but that said, reasonable laws restricting driving drunk and the like are awesome. The root cause of our problems is citizen partisanship. As long as we disagree among ourselves along partisan lines, our leaders have the green light to do whatever they want - we are pawns of propaganda, enthusiastically allowing ourselves to be used and abused. This inferno nature of this issue has been gold for political leaders on both sides - just tell the majority of voters ( i.e. people who actually vote and not just registered ) what they want to hear and you're in.

"I'm for this and that ... " ... ok, dipshit, now what are you going to do about it.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 06:13:52 pm by TaoHorror »
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MSJ

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« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2018, 10:00:41 pm »
Quote from:  Tao
I take it the author of that piece was having trouble getting work/published to conclude something so extreme ).

No, lol. He works for troubled youth facility in our hometown. Where children from all over the state come to be rehibilated. He's the president of the company. He see's quite clearly what causes troubled kids more than most people. And what makes them so extreme. Shit Tao, you went on to agree with everything the man said. Lol

ETA: what was so extreme about that Facebook post, Tao?

Quote
"I'm for this and that ... " ... ok, dipshit, now what are you going to do about it.

We know where you stand what exactly the intellectually mighty Tao going to do about it? You know this conversation didn't start yesterday, it has so years ago. What have you done to make US a safer place from these types of things, while still holding onto your freedom of the 2nd? Not much, huh?

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We can fight about it or we can learn and listen to each other.

The single sentence that makes me think you're a rational person Tao. Its with everything in politics. We have the left that is so far left they don't even know what their arguing about anymore, and the right so far right that they are not willing to budge. Its about meeting in the middle. No matter the issue. Gun Control, abortion, taxes, immigration.....shall I go on? Everybody is robots that sit in their little safe place on the internet and have the views confirmed. No one thinks for themselves. No one want to reach a conclusion that would make both happy, or at least able to deal with.

And, I believe, you said if they tried to take away our guns, rescind the 2nd, their wouldn't be a Civil War. I don't know where your from. But, where I'm from, we could hold out for a long long time. Along with many other places in America.. The argument that our military is too great to go up against is ridiculous. They could bomb the shit out of us, but what would be left to rule, Tao? Not much. The 2nd protects us from tyranny, and I'm am so glad its in there. I do believe we need to come together as citizens, as you said, and make changes. Politicians will only gain otherwise, I agree.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 11:19:45 pm by MSJ »
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,